Voice from the past

On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:33:56 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:16:31 +0200, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

Why are professional telescopes unable to create aestetic images?
I
can see no reason why it should be that way. True, pro astronomers
don't focus on aestetics, because that's not their job. But it
cannot
be impossible!

Where did I suggest that professional telescopes can't be used to
create aesthetic images? What I said is that they are no better at
doing so than amateur equipment. Amateur imagers are not being
outclassed by professionals.

The claim I objected to was that amateur telescopes and imagers are
always better than their professional counterparts.

On Sep 13, 4:48*pm, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:36:32 -0600, Chris L Peterson

wrote:
If he's hoping to discover new planetary satellites visually, he's
definitely wasting his time.
Who suggested that was their goal?

Nobody afaik. It was just an example of a field where visual
observations have become hopelessly obsolete. No-one does this even
for pleasure anymore.

What you actually mean is that visual observations are of no interest
to mathematical theorists,for everyone else astronomy is many facets
and especially cause and effect.

You assume by your statement that fuzzy mathematical notation and
vague terms have replaced geometry as the language of astronomy but
the fact is that people are still curious as to why the human body
responds to the motions of the Earth around the Sun,something which
requires only common sense and enough interest to acquire that intense
satisfaction astronomy gives to those who make the effort .Of course
the quote of Galileo on the matter is distorted to make it appear he
supports the empirical notion of mathematics -

"The laws of Nature are written in the language of mathematics ... the
symbols are triangles, circles and other geometrical figures, without
whose help it is impossible to comprehend a single word." Galileo

Astronomy is a visual exercise for there is no other type of
astronomy,even the interpretative and speculative approaches are
tributaries of looking into the celestial arena for clues as to why
things change,move and are experienced.

Maybe some day the vicious strain of empiricism will be no more and
humanity can discover astronomy as not only a visual exercise but one
where the day and night cycles and the seasonal cycles of their
existence are in response the the motions of the planet we participate
in hence we close the circle between individual and
Universal,something which is a facet of my Christian faith.

On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:50:58 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:29:34 PM UTC-4, Jan Owen wrote:

On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:45:08 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:



I might be willing to trade the Dob for a floosie though. That sounds kinda nice. But no way can I afford a boat in the marina, so said floosie will have to settle for "riding bitch" on the open road, and sleeping in a tent. Not sure I'd have any takers.



Hi, Steve!



Another *old* face surfaces!!! Nice to see you again (I see you on



FB regularly, but SAA is special)...



You too. I returned here myself in June(?) after getting the aforementioned 10" (Zhumell) F5 Dob for a song and a dance... well, for a 40 mile drive and a couple hundred bucks anyway (excellent deal). The XT10 I had years ago was my favorite scope, and this is the same scope from GSO as far as I know. Works great. Skies have gotten only marginally worse overhead in the past 5 years. I can still make out the banding of the Milky Way from Cass to Scutum through Cygnus naked eye. These nights it's overhead just about my bedtime, so I step out on the balcony for a few minutes each night with the binoculars to do a sweep. I got a green laser to put on the Dob, but frankly I don't do much observing in Summer. To many bugs, we've got West Nile in the area, and the skies are only now getting dark around bedtime. In another month, I'll be out there and get the laser going as a gross finder companion to the 9x50 RACI.



You'll have to forgive my stepping into it with WSnell, the resident hard line ideologue who rubs me the wrong way. We've been ****ing on each other for a couple of months like a couple of drunken sailors who have nothing better to do than get into a fist fight every night.



Also, this is from Google. I have Thunderbird on my home PC which doesn't bitch up the formatting of text quite so much.



Later,

Steve

Well, it appears to be much as I'd been forwarned.

But there is hope... There are still some good folks here amidst the chaff.. The question seems to be visibility. If newcomers came here with their issues, questions, and problems, I suspect they'd still find plenty help...

The problem today is that folks have drifted off to other venues, and so have the newcomers & their questions. I don't have a good answer about how to reverse that, if it's even possible, since Newsgroups seem so far removed from today's Facebook/Twitter generation (though I can't stand Facebook & Twitter, personally)...

I have been a part of several alternative astronomy venues since before I left here, and I can say that there's nothing magical there. Many of the folks there are ex-patriots from SAA that couldn't handle what SAA has become.. But the other venues tend to be so over-moderated that they aren't even remotely clost to what SAA used to be either, any more than SAA is what it used to be...

So what needs to be done??? There seems to be a big void that no one's filling. Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but they're not there, either... Can SAA be resurrected, or is there sufficient reason or energy to try???

On Sep 14, 10:24*pm, Jan Owen wrote:
On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:50:58 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 12:29:34 PM UTC-4, Jan Owen wrote:

On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:45:08 AM UTC-7, Steve wrote:

I might be willing to trade the Dob for a floosie though. That sounds kinda nice. But no way can I afford a boat in the marina, so said floosie will have to settle for "riding bitch" on the open road, and sleeping in a tent. Not sure I'd have any takers.

Hi, Steve!

Another *old* face surfaces!!! *Nice to see you again (I see you on

FB regularly, but SAA is special)...

You too. I returned here myself in June(?) after getting the aforementioned 10" (Zhumell) F5 Dob for a song and a dance... well, for a 40 mile drive and a couple hundred bucks anyway (excellent deal). The XT10 I had years ago was my favorite scope, and this is the same scope from GSO as far as I know. Works great. Skies have gotten only marginally worse overhead in the past 5 years. I can still make out the banding of the Milky Way from Cass to Scutum through Cygnus naked eye. These nights it's overhead just about my bedtime, so I step out on the balcony for a few minutes each night with the binoculars to do a sweep. I got a green laser to put on the Dob, but frankly I don't do much observing in Summer. To many bugs, we've got West Nile in the area, and the skies are only now getting dark around bedtime. In another month, I'll be out there and get the laser going as a gross finder companion to the 9x50 RACI.

You'll have to forgive my stepping into it with WSnell, the resident hard line ideologue who rubs me the wrong way. We've been ****ing on each other for a couple of months like a couple of drunken sailors who have nothing better to do than get into a fist fight every night.

Also, this is from Google. I have Thunderbird on my home PC which doesn't bitch up the formatting of text quite so much.

Later,

Steve

Well, it appears to be much as I'd been forwarned.

But there is hope... *There are still some good folks here amidst the chaff. *The question seems to be visibility. *If newcomers came here with their issues, questions, and problems, I suspect they'd still find plenty help...

The problem today is that folks have drifted off to other venues, and so have the newcomers & their questions. *I don't have a good answer about how to reverse that, if it's even possible, since Newsgroups seem so far removed from today's Facebook/Twitter generation (though I can't stand Facebook & Twitter, personally)...

I have been a part of several alternative astronomy venues since before I left here, and I can say that there's nothing magical there. *Many of the folks there are ex-patriots from SAA that couldn't handle what SAA has become. *But the other venues tend to be so over-moderated that they aren't even remotely clost to what SAA used to be either, any more than SAA is what it used to be...

So what needs to be done??? *There seems to be a big void that no one's filling. *Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but they're not there, either... *Can SAA be resurrected, or is there sufficient reason or energy to try???

You lot disappeared when genuine astronomy entered SAA so get used to
it .I have to laugh at the moderated forums as instead of the childish
antics in the unmoderated newsgroup where a few insults are thrown
around before you disappear,they have them as official policy.

SAA survives by its standards,not some misty eyed middle age numbskull
with a magnifying glass who imagines himself an astronomer on that
account so when you actually post something worthwhile,then perhaps
you can join SAA where the moderation is based on what satisfaction
you can inject into a discussion -nothing more or less.

Can't handle basic astronomical principles then take up stamp
collecting but don's crave an SAA that was in the process of
disintegrating anyway due to lack of anything original.

On 14 Sep., 22:24, Jan Owen wrote:

So what needs to be done??? *There seems to be a big void that no one's filling. *Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but they're not there, either... *Can SAA be resurrected, or is there sufficient reason or energy to try???

Your return has certainly provoked a noticeable change. The parading
loons have been going mental in vying for attention. And have,
thankfully, been largely ignored. The pedants have still been picking
holes in each other's threads but have failed miserably to convince
anyone of anything. So why bother in the first place?

I have discovered that the secret to happiness now lies in writing
ribald responses and then deleting them before the desire is strong
enough to hit send. One can be incredibly rude! Entertain oneself for
hours. Just tossing word salads onto the monitor. Without anyone else
ever knowing. Or having a negative opinion to share.

I commend the habit to this forum. Next time your feel driven to play
Rounders with the loons: Keep it to yourself. They'll go complete
barmy trying to fill the void. :-)

s.a.a. "A forum for the discussion of amateur astronomy and its
equipment."

On 9/14/2012 4:24 PM, Jan Owen wrote:

So what needs to be done??? There seems to be a big void that no
one's filling. Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but
they're not there, either... Can SAA be resurrected, or is there
sufficient reason or energy to try???


Most of usenet seems to have become the way people imagine the old west
and biker bars. Every now and then there's a corner for decent
conversation, but generally it seems like it's a place to grab a beer,
and either duck or start slugging.

Nobody is nice any more. (Well, mostly nobody).

-Steve

On Sep 15, 4:27*am, Steve wrote:
On 9/14/2012 4:24 PM, Jan Owen wrote:

So what needs to be done??? *There seems to be a big void that no
one's filling. *Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but
they're not there, either... *Can SAA be resurrected, or is there
sufficient reason or energy to try???

Most of usenet seems to have become the way people imagine the old west
and biker bars. Every now and then there's a corner for decent
conversation, but generally it seems like it's a place to grab a beer,
and either duck or start slugging.


Just as I knew they would,I see many trickle back to SAA from the
tyrannical moderated groups and my commendations to those who stayed
in this forum , hopefully they will remind you that the focus has
shifted (no pun intended) to a broader astronomical arena and no
longer a corner of the empirical empire which uses astronomy and the
celestial arena as a dumping ground for mathematicians and their
theoretical junk.

The point of departure is no longer the fact that the planet is
round,rotating and has a very specific equatorial speed which keeps
the 24 hour day in step with each rotation - it is now the broad area
of cause and effect in evolutionary geology.planetary climate
attributes,short term cycles and longer term variations which mesh
with longer periods of the planet's history with many clues found on
the surface.

The empirical community, of which the moderated forums are a mirror,
is still hopelessly lost in astronomical matters and playing around
with 'definitions' is one sure sign that they have reached a dead
end.Anyone who can match Kepler's representation with contemporary
sequencing of Mars will learn so much about astronomy - how the great
astronomers from antiquity up to Kepler and Galileo thought as the
planets move against the background stars rather the the empirical
notion of everything moving with a rotating Ra/Dec sphere -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...retrograde.jpg

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120809.html

These are the real voices from the past but also the voices of the
future.









Nobody is nice any more. (Well, mostly nobody).

-Steve

On Sep 8, 9:10*pm, Jan Owen wrote:
It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... *I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... *I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. *Sure miss those old days...

I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still
endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places
to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.

On 9/15/2012 6:49 AM, Martin Nicholson wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:10 pm, Jan Owen wrote:
It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. Sure miss those old days...

I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still
endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places
to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.




I show up mostly to see what Anthony has taken pic's of and some other
interesting tidbits that keep showing up here.

I was stunned to see sketcher and Jan pop back. Makes worth checking
here more often worthwhile as well.





AM

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:30:56 AM UTC-7, AM wrote:
On 9/15/2012 6:49 AM, Martin Nicholson wrote:

On Sep 8, 9:10 pm, Jan Owen wrote:

It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. Sure miss those old days...



I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still

endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places

to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.









I show up mostly to see what Anthony has taken pic's of and some other

interesting tidbits that keep showing up here.



I was stunned to see sketcher and Jan pop back. Makes worth checking

here more often worthwhile as well.











AM

Here's hoping for many happy returns!!!