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Voice from the past



 
 
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  #81  
Old September 15th 12, 04:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jan Owen
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Posts: 203
Default Voice from the past

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:49:39 AM UTC-7, Martin Nicholson wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:10*pm, Jan Owen wrote:

It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... *I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... *I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. *Sure miss those old days...




I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still

endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places

to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.


I'm active in multiple other venues, but SAA has always kept tugging at me, because all the others are so heavily moderated, and so narrow in scope per venue, so I finally looked closer at how I could get back, since my ISP dropped newsgroups... I found out I should have been back long ago, since it wasn't hard to find another route to SAA after all...
  #82  
Old September 15th 12, 09:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jan Owen
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Posts: 203
Default Voice from the past

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:30:56 AM UTC-7, AM wrote:
On 9/15/2012 6:49 AM, Martin Nicholson wrote:

On Sep 8, 9:10 pm, Jan Owen wrote:


It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. Sure miss those old days...




I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still


endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places


to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.










I show up mostly to see what Anthony has taken pic's of and some other

interesting tidbits that keep showing up here.



I was stunned to see sketcher and Jan pop back. Makes worth checking

here more often worthwhile as well.











AM


I miss Sketcher, too... I still see him now and then on Cloudy Nights, and have talked to him via direct e-mail now and then, but I still miss his *presence* here (and was happy to hear from him when he dropped in again). I've always found his thoughts and sketches to be very personal, and quite inspiring... There's some of Leslie Peltier in him...
  #83  
Old September 15th 12, 09:54 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jan Owen
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Posts: 203
Default Voice from the past

On Friday, September 14, 2012 8:27:23 PM UTC-7, Steve wrote:
On 9/14/2012 4:24 PM, Jan Owen wrote:



So what needs to be done??? There seems to be a big void that no


one's filling. Cloudy Nights seems to be closer than others, but


they're not there, either... Can SAA be resurrected, or is there


sufficient reason or energy to try???






Most of usenet seems to have become the way people imagine the old west

and biker bars. Every now and then there's a corner for decent

conversation, but generally it seems like it's a place to grab a beer,

and either duck or start slugging.



Nobody is nice any more. (Well, mostly nobody).



-Steve


I never looked at it that way, but it's an interesting perspective... And may be somewhat indicitave of what SAA has evolved toward... Not sure yet.... I think there's still a spark of the *old days* left (regardless of the relative merits). Some of the worst of the old days is still there, of course, but it looks like some of the best, whether regular participants today or not, are still in drop-in mode.

Maybe with a few more sparks of life, something GOOD can emerge... Note that I didn't just drop in. I'm HERE now... Of course that won't fix anything by itself; I'm just an old echo of the past, but if others drop back in, THAT could be a game changer... I'm hoping more will drop back in and discover the campfire hasn't burned out, and the embers are beginning to brighten...
  #84  
Old September 15th 12, 10:15 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jan Owen
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Posts: 203
Default Voice from the past

On Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:30:56 AM UTC-7, AM wrote:
On 9/15/2012 6:49 AM, Martin Nicholson wrote:

On Sep 8, 9:10 pm, Jan Owen wrote:


It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of the old gang are still around... I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative ways to get back on board... I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. Sure miss those old days...




I still pop in from time to time. The usual nutters are still


endlessly repeating themselves and with so many more productive places


to read and post sci.astro.amateur just isn't a high priority for me.










I show up mostly to see what Anthony has taken pic's of and some other

interesting tidbits that keep showing up here.



I was stunned to see sketcher and Jan pop back. Makes worth checking

here more often worthwhile as well.











AM


I'm happy to BE back. And sure glad I finally decided to find a way back; how bizarre!!! As I finally figured out, it was incredibly simple to get back to SAA, and I'd just given up for no reason!!! I have no idea how many others may have done the same in similar circumstances... Probably not THAT many; not trying harder was pretty dumb on my part...

Frankly Anthony has always been an inspiration, much like Sketcher, Roland, and others (gotta' talk to Jon Isaacs about this, too - only talked to him a few days ago - he was, in the day, part of the foundation here, but my discussion with Jon wasn't about SAA, sad to say)...

How many other friends from SAA in years past are we, collectively, still in touch with? Could be a little nudge from us might help stoke up those embers another notch...
  #85  
Old September 17th 12, 04:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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On Friday, September 14, 2012 4:40:38 PM UTC-4, oriel36 wrote:

You lot disappeared when genuine astronomy entered SAA


I disagree.

USENET went down the tubes when the internet began to flourish and the world wide access of the masses brought politics, religion, and widely rejected theories into every discussion without provocation.

When that was only a handful of posts, it was manageable, but when it became a flood, people got tired of wading through it and left.

At a deeper level, the problem is the lack of civility in either insinuating or outright stating that others are idiots, hypocrites, or "istas". If you are unwilling to make allowance for the way others see the world through their own preconceptions, and with _gentle_ persuasion lead them to the discovery of another truth, or even self awareness, then you are little more than a self absorbed, foot stomping child, who lacks an understanding of the human psyche.

And if through your treatment of others you show that you neither understand the human psyche, or believe your view fallible, then you ultimately render yourself ineffective at the art of persuasion. You are but a noisy gong, that everyone eventually considers annoying and not worth reading.

-Steve
  #86  
Old September 17th 12, 04:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
AM
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Posts: 561
Default Voice from the past

On 9/17/2012 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Friday, September 14, 2012 4:40:38 PM UTC-4, oriel36 wrote:

You lot disappeared when genuine astronomy entered SAA


I disagree.

USENET went down the tubes when the internet began to flourish and the world wide access of the masses brought politics, religion, and widely rejected theories into every discussion without provocation.

When that was only a handful of posts, it was manageable, but when it became a flood, people got tired of wading through it and left.

At a deeper level, the problem is the lack of civility in either insinuating or outright stating that others are idiots, hypocrites, or "istas". If you are unwilling to make allowance for the way others see the world through their own preconceptions, and with _gentle_ persuasion lead them to the discovery of another truth, or even self awareness, then you are little more than a self absorbed, foot stomping child, who lacks an understanding of the human psyche.

And if through your treatment of others you show that you neither understand the human psyche, or believe your view fallible, then you ultimately render yourself ineffective at the art of persuasion. You are but a noisy gong, that everyone eventually considers annoying and not worth reading.

-Steve




Please don't feed any of our resident trolls, please.

You will never get through to him or Brad, not now not ever. Just plonk
him and move on.



  #87  
Old September 17th 12, 10:16 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default Voice from the past

On Sep 17, 4:33*pm, wrote:
On Friday, September 14, 2012 4:40:38 PM UTC-4, oriel36 wrote:

You lot disappeared when genuine astronomy entered SAA


I disagree.


Let me guess,the usual empirical behavior on the Usenet is to draw a
participant down to a level where there is nothing left but headache
inducing nonsense and everyone waits out until a person gives into
the temptation to return the insults.I simply increased the number of
topics to discuss and waited out to see the returnees twist and turn
about software problems or their broadband supplier not carrying
newsgroups - I have seen it all a hundred times but the fact is that
the moderated groups are too childish and too sterile to e anything
other than what they are.


USENET went down the tubes when the internet began to flourish and the world wide access of the masses brought politics, religion, and widely rejected theories into every discussion without provocation.


You wish,all the experts thought the Usenet was an empirical pulpit
where the masses show up with packaged questions,instead they battened
down the hatches as every conceivable topic was challenged.This forum
started out as a place for middle class magnification enthusiasts to
gather with all the pretension attached but now you discover how
little you have in common with the genuine voices of the astronomical
past,voices which are slowly being heard again.





When that was only a handful of posts, it was manageable, but when it became a flood, people got tired of wading through it and left.


SAA has little spam,the few with wayward ideas such as fossils on Mars
or emprical voodoo chanting wouldn't stand out in a vibrant forum but
it turns out they are merely imitating what many call the 'mainstream'
- mathematicians with no talent other than to dither around with the
calendar generated Ra/Dec system and its predictive convenience.I wish
you understood the technical ins and outs of it but of course you were
probably one of the ones who thought it better to disappear.



At a deeper level, the problem is the lack of civility in either insinuating or outright stating that others are idiots, hypocrites, or "istas". If you are unwilling to make allowance for the way others see the world through their own preconceptions, and with _gentle_ persuasion lead them to the discovery of another truth, or even self awareness, then you are little more than a self absorbed, foot stomping child, who lacks an understanding of the human psyche.


Get back to me when you can affirm that one rotation of the Earth
keeps in step with a 24 hour day and that the rotations enclosed
within 4 orbital circuits of the Earth matches the number of days or
better still,affirm the equatorial speed of the Earth.



And if through your treatment of others you show that you neither understand the human psyche, or believe your view fallible, then you ultimately render yourself ineffective at the art of persuasion. You are but a noisy gong, that everyone eventually considers annoying and not worth reading.

-Steve


Tearing the empirical agenda to shreds is hardly an
achievement,getting 21st century observational data up and running is
so much more difficult as most are unaccustomed to the proper
principles of astronomy and the rest are simply hostile to
astronomy.If I asked you what happens within the next week as the
polar coordinates turn through the circle of illumination thereby
determining/defining the equinox and an additional planetary axis,this
determination is supported by actual sequential imaging,you don's have
a ball's notion what I am on about as you simply can't see where a
planet turns in two ways to the central Sun whereas I can -

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...icture_big.jpg

What do I care what empiricists think,after all,from my point of view
it looks like a welfare society based on chanting voodoo and hoping
the wider community is impressed. I see many try to trace my steps and
particularly those who throw every assertion they find at plate
tectonics and the planet's rotation so,despite appearances,some have
been listening but don't have that confidence or the competence to
handle these principles properly.


  #88  
Old September 30th 12, 03:27 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jan Owen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 203
Default Voice from the past

On Saturday, September 8, 2012 5:54:20 PM UTC-7, Davoud wrote:
Jan Owen:

It's been a long time, but I thought I'd just drop in here, & see how many of


the old gang are still around... I never intended to leave SAA; but my ISP


dropped newsgroups, and I didn't really try hard enough to find alternative


ways to get back on board... I'm just as involved in amateur astronomy as


ever; just in somewhat more isolation than when on SAA. Sure miss those old


days...




Nice to "see" you.



For better or worse, I'm still here, more as a lurker than as poster

these days. I've got the flat-earth/geocentric Solar System/human

fossils-on-Mars psychopaths kill-filed, so I see very little traffic.

The problem is that too many of the good and knowledgable folks cannot

resist responding over and over again to the nut cases as if a rational

explanation were a magical cure for a psychosis.



I also don't post so often any more because if one says something

offensive or controversial such as "My, isn't this a lovely day. I hope

you enjoy it and may all your skies be clear," one will come under

relentless attack and receive elegant mathematical proofs that this not

a lovely day, and, in fact, it is the kind of day that only an idiot

like me could enjoy.



If I post a link to an astrophoto that I have made someone who doesn't

know a filter wheel from a Barlow lens will be quick to inform me that

it is the worst astrophoto that ever could be, even though someone said

the same thing about my last astrophoto. So I don't do that anymore,

either.



In fact, even though climate change is a hoax, and the climate in the

Mid-Atlantic states has not changed in the 6,000-year history of the

Universe, /something/ is taking away my clear nights and I haven't even

made a night-time astrophoto in about a year. I blame the /perceived/

change on gay marriage and women having the right to vote.



I would venture to guess that you will disappear again for your own

good, and continue to remember the good old days.



--

I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that

you will say in your entire life.



usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm


Well, I'm still here, but I hear you; there's not much of note going on here anymore...

It appears the SAA that I once knew is indeed dead, even though some of the same great folks are still sticking around. Not sure what for, though. Not much to talk about if no one's talking... I used to make hundreds of posts here in a month. Today, there's only a handful of posts about amateur astronomy or equipment in a month (I checked the posts back two months).

Where did all that go? Yahoo Groups and Cloudy Nights, I guess... And some to Astromart, though Herb's made that less attractive over the years, too....

Wherever, the energy sure isn't here, for whatever reason... It surely isn't the trolls and wackos. They've always been here... It's a mystery to me, but I'll admit to not having been here to SEE what happened. Sad to see it come to this, though...
 




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