Why not send fungi into space

WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

On Nov 20, 12:00*am, wrote:
WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - = -
*Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
* *http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm...k.com/vasjpan2
* ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. *Everything fully disclaimed..}---
* *[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
*[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

When and if we ever get inside the moon (at least under a few meters
of lunar bedrock), there's a good shot at life as we know it
surviving.

An artificial atmosphere can be created and sustained underground.

0.1% of 2.2e19 m3 = 2.2e16 m3 that's sufficiently hollow as is.
That's only 3.26e6 m3 for every man, woman and child, or roughly a km2
with a ceiling height of 3.26 meters (10.7 feet).

~ BG

wrote:
WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.

Maybe someone already beat us to that concept; flu from Venus:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...774778,00.html
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918.htm
And most people don't even know they have birds and pigs on Venus. ;-)
Seriously, the concept of sending bacteria into the Venusian clouds to
see if they could start terraforming the planet by creating oxygen from
the CO2 while eating the sulfur goes back quite a ways, and frankly I
don't know why someone hasn't tried it just to see what would happen, as
we can be fairly sure that there is no indigenous life on Venus given
the appalling conditions there.
As far as the gas giant planets like Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and
Neptune, I don't know if I've ever heard of a proposal for seeding their
clouds with life of some sort, even though all four planets have layers
in their atmosphere where the temperature is right for liquid water to
exist.

Pat

On Nov 20, 8:24*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.

Maybe someone already beat us to that concept; flu from Venus: http://www..time.com/time/magazine/a...774778,00.html http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918.htm
And most people don't even know they have birds and pigs on Venus. ;-)
Seriously, the concept of sending bacteria into the Venusian clouds to
see if they could start terraforming the planet by creating oxygen from
the CO2 while eating the sulfur goes back quite a ways, and frankly I
don't know why someone hasn't tried it just to see what would happen, as
we can be fairly sure that there is no indigenous life on Venus given
the appalling conditions there.
As far as the gas giant planets like Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and
Neptune, I don't know if I've ever heard of a proposal for seeding their
clouds with life of some sort, even though all four planets have layers
in their atmosphere where the temperature is right for liquid water to
exist.

Pat

Directed panspermia is a reasonable thought, as mentioned by others
including myself. Panspermia flu from Venus goes way back to
something prior to the Apollo era.

~ BG

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...

On Nov 20, 8:24 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:


Maybe someone already beat us to that concept; flu from Venus:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...774778,00.html
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918.htm
And most people don't even know they have birds and pigs on Venus. ;-)
Seriously, the concept of sending bacteria into the Venusian clouds to
see if they could start terraforming the planet by creating oxygen from
the CO2 while eating the sulfur goes back quite a ways, and frankly I
don't know why someone hasn't tried it just to see what would happen, as
we can be fairly sure that there is no indigenous life on Venus given
the appalling conditions there.

Pat


Just to see what happens Pat????
What if it were countries like N Korea, Iran or Libya that
decided to perform those kind of experiments? Maybe they
could learn something useful (to them) that could work back
here on Earth? Or get a headline or two, or maybe some loon
is just bored?

And who gets to decide the fate (use) of the solar system?

Scientists? That would be the worst possible choice for such
decisions. From my experience the current scientific community
has never been more susceptible to political influence.
Scientists these days will spew anything required to keep their
place in the clouds... their jobs.

Not only is there little to no backbone in the scientific community
but even worse, there's no critical press reporting either.
It's just shocking that the press these days will accept at face
value anything and everything they're told.

The NASA press conferences are nothing more than
'show-conferences'. No more credible than any
standard show-trial. The whole LCROSS spectacle was
a classic example of this, selective narrow news releases
designed to further a political goal. Announcing 'water'
right where they want a colony, only forgetting to mention
they haven't a clue as to the concentrations of water found.

Sometimes I have to pinch myself to see if these things are
really happening in this day and age. Not sure which is worse.
The fact they get away with it, or that no one seems to
even notice much less care.



Directed panspermia is a reasonable thought, as mentioned by others
including myself. Panspermia flu from Venus goes way back to
something prior to the Apollo era.

~ BG


I would think it's quite possible for microbes to be engineered to
thrive on Mars today. And even more worrisome, it might be
possible for a third world country to send robots to Mars before
all that long. I mean the simple fact is that the very same kind of
microbes which first populated Earth, should thrive today on
Mars.

The 'ultimate' seed!

Start the whole process from the start! But maybe sped up
a few orders of magnitude someday by our quickly growing
'wonders of science'.

Science itching to play God!
Now there's some food for thought. Every bit as scary as
religion having their carnal way with science.

The UN can't prevent anything like that. The US needs to continue
militarizing space as fast as we can. Any funds for a civilian manned
program should be devoted to military space development. Maybe
some day we'll live in a 'civilized' world where peaceful 'civilized'
exploration of space is possible. Or when we can afford both
military and civilian manned programs.

But that's another day.



s

On Nov 21, 5:09*am, "Jonathan" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message
....
On Nov 20, 8:24 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
Maybe someone already beat us to that concept; flu from Venus:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...774778,00.html
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918.htm
And most people don't even know they have birds and pigs on Venus. ;-)
Seriously, the concept of sending bacteria into the Venusian clouds to
see if they could start terraforming the planet by creating oxygen from
the CO2 while eating the sulfur goes back quite a ways, and frankly I
don't know why someone hasn't tried it just to see what would happen, as
we can be fairly sure that there is no indigenous life on Venus given
the appalling conditions there.
Pat

Just to see what happens Pat????
What if it were countries like N Korea, Iran or Libya that
decided to perform those kind of experiments? Maybe they
could learn something useful (to them) that could work back
here on Earth? Or get a headline or two, or maybe some loon
is just bored?

Our Patt is anti-Venus, as well as anti-objective science as based
upon the regular laws of physics, especially if there's any
possibility of off-world life to behold, much less if any of it's
intelligent. Our mainstream status quo Patt is also bipolar and thus
unable to honestly reconcile the matters of whatever our NASA has to
say, as opposed to what truly independent (outsider) research has to
say. Patt is only a happy camper if all of whatever's off-world is
limited as to inert eyecandy.


And who gets to decide the fate (use) of the solar system?

Scientists? That would be the worst possible choice for such
decisions. From my experience the current scientific community
has never been more susceptible to political influence.
Scientists these days will spew anything required to keep their
place in the clouds... their jobs.

Not only is there little to no backbone in the scientific community
but even worse, there's no critical press reporting either.
It's just shocking that the press these days will accept at face
value anything and everything they're told.

The mainstream media has to publish verbatim whatever our DARPA/NASA
have to say, or else. They are also systematically forbidden to
publish the investigative research and deductive formulated opinions
of outsiders, or else. The "or else" means getting their teeth and
butts kicked, and otherwise shut down or even terminated by whatever
means necessary.

Only a few private science journals are valid enough, but those are
seldom if ever picked up by mainstream media, much less getting
republished into textbooks.


The NASA press conferences are nothing more than
'show-conferences'. No more credible than any
standard show-trial. The whole LCROSS spectacle was
a classic example of this, selective narrow news releases
designed to further a political goal. Announcing 'water'
right where they want a colony, only forgetting to mention
they haven't a clue as to the concentrations of water found.

Perhaps 100250 ppm from a few hundred tonnes of vaporized bedrock.


Sometimes I have to pinch myself to see if these things are
really happening in this day and age. Not sure which is worse.
The fact they get away with it, or that no one seems to
even notice much less care.

They care only that revision of any kind is forbidden, as well as
remorse excluded because, any discovery of off-world life (ET
biodiversity, even if it's not intelligent) would summarily kick
terrestrial religion in its teeth and butt at the same time.


Directed panspermia is a reasonable thought, as mentioned by others
including myself. *Panspermia flu from Venus goes way back to
something prior to the Apollo era.

*~ BG

I would think it's quite possible for microbes to be engineered to
thrive on Mars today. And even more worrisome, it might be
possible for a third world country to send robots to Mars before
all that long. *I mean the simple fact is that the very same kind of
microbes which first populated Earth, should thrive today on
Mars.

If anywhere near or on the surface, as such they'd have to be rad-hard
and almost never thirsty, as well as made of antifreeze and perhaps
good at holding their microbe breaths.


The 'ultimate' seed!

Start the whole process from the start! *But maybe sped up
a few orders of magnitude someday by our quickly growing
'wonders of science'.

Artificially terraforming our moon from the inside-out seems a whole
lot easier, especially since that Selene/moon of ours is likely worth
at least 0.1% hollow to start with.


Science itching to play God!
Now there's some food for thought. Every bit as scary as
religion having their carnal way with science.

The UN can't prevent anything like that. The US needs to continue
militarizing space as fast as we can. Any funds for a civilian manned
program should be devoted to military space development. Maybe
some day we'll live in a 'civilized' world where peaceful 'civilized'
exploration of space is possible. Or when we can afford both
military and civilian manned programs.

But that's another day.

s

We'll need a serious kick-ass global dictator that has sufficient
teeth in order to make this happen (not some wussy dark-skinned Jesus
Christ that's will to get put on a stick for another faith-based PR
stunt).

As I've said, from all of humanity and for less than $1/month could
manage to relocate our Selene/moon to Earth L1(interactively keeping
it there), as well as allowing folks to establish thousands if not
millions of substantial habitats within and/or upon the moon at the
same time. Even a thin but manageable kind of toxic atmosphere could
be managed, although inside the moon (within/under the crust) could be
made as natural of atmosphere as here on Earth (obviously far less
polluted), and don't forget about my LSE-CM/ISS (nearside as well as
farside).

Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Nov 21, 8:09*am, "Jonathan" wrote:

The NASA press conferences are nothing more than
'show-conferences'. No more credible than any
standard show-trial. The whole LCROSS spectacle was
a classic example of this, selective narrow news releases
designed to further a political goal. Announcing 'water'
right where they want a colony, only forgetting to mention
they haven't a clue as to the concentrations of water found.


Clueless, do some research. They announced the water concentrations.

On Nov 21, 1:00*pm, Me wrote:
On Nov 21, 8:09*am, "Jonathan" wrote:

The NASA press conferences are nothing more than
'show-conferences'. No more credible than any
standard show-trial. The whole LCROSS spectacle was
a classic example of this, selective narrow news releases
designed to further a political goal. Announcing 'water'
right where they want a colony, only forgetting to mention
they haven't a clue as to the concentrations of water found.

Clueless, do some research. *They announced the water concentrations.

There is absolutely NO surface ice, but otherwise yes in deed, good
old basalt bedrock has 50750 ppm of h2o. So what?

Our moon by rights should have a little of everything, because there’s
also loads of sodium that gets continually released, as well as
otherwise a good dozen nifty elements in mineral saturated basalt.
Cosmic panspermia via icy comets and asteroid/meteor debris is also a
given, though especially interesting if such spores/microbes are those
solar wind blown from Venus.

Seems our NASA LCROSS team in their latest hour of need is bulking up
on serious steroids and/or hard drugs, as in cover thy butt with all
the media hype, spin and eyecandy meds they can muster, or else. It’s
called job security, except theirs is with loads of nifty benefits and
perks like COL insurance.

They must think our president/BHO and his staff of well educated
advisers are easily snookered and dumbfounded past the point of no
return. Because guess what folks, there’s always water to behold from
creating any crater on most any planet or moon, mostly because basalt
always has at the very least 50 ppm to begin with (750 ppm).
Secondly, keeping yourself warm is really not a problem, as is with
keeping yourself and whatever technology cool. For those polar crater
locations, Stirling energy conversions from that full spectrum of
solar photons converted into electrons is really going to become nifty
when there’s such a terrific thermal (light to dark) differential to
begin with.

Once any molecules of water/ice are freed at 3e-15 bar, it becomes
nearly explosive in how it would unavoidably react by expanding into
such an extreme vacuum, and there’s all sorts of secondary IR that
even manages to get into the deepest of those polar craters from time
to time, contributing sufficient thermal energy to boil off or rather
sublime most any raw/naked volume of ice at that extensive vacuum, not
to mention the moon itself is also radiating 22 mw/m2 of it’s
residual and/or thorium/uranium core heat (thicker polar crust has got
to be worth at least 10 mw/m2).

The 50750 some odd PPM of water that’s sealed in lunar surface
bedrock and deeper crust basalt is one thing that’s likely sure enough
there to behold. However, raw/naked ice under a crystal dry layer of
physically dark carbon dust is not as likely to exist/coexist unless
that moon either isn’t very old, and/or there’s water or mineral brine
that’s still leaking/extruding out from a substantial geode reservoir
or layer protected aquifers inside the moon that’s otherwise being
sucked crystal dry by all of that 3e-15 bar vacuum.

AP / “The lunar crash kicked up at least 25 gallons and that's only
what scientists could see from the plumes of the impact, Colaprete
said.”

And yet there’s still no UV florescence imaging or public review of
those original gamma spectrum readings. So, it remains pretty much
insider and/or need-to-know business as per usual, whereas raw/naked
ice in the extreme vacuum of space apparently doesn’t have to go by
any pesky laws of physics, or any need of independent peer review.

The LCROSS 20 meter crater is basically giving up 1e3 m3 worth of
displaced and/or partially vaporized basalt that’s mineral saturated
and supposedly containing 250 PPM water. That’s roughly 3.5e3 tonnes
worth of lunar basalt w/minerals and those ppm of water to start off
with, and by taking roughly 11% of that as having been vaporized is
perhaps what our NASA has claimed as having given off measurable
water, that such frozen basalt by eights should have. I think the
impact vaporized closer to 25% if not as great as 33%, which means the
h2o content of that basalt wasn’t as great as 100 PPM, but then who’s
really counting since ordinary physics and easily peered replicated
science does not matter.

I would tend to favor that our physically dark lunar surface is about
as crystal dry anf electrostatic charged as things within such a
terrific vacuum environment could ever get, though I’ll give a very
remote possibility of there being an underground artisan cache of
water or mineral brine that has been gradually venting/leaking out and
into just those continually frozen craters is at least technically
possible, although it's extremely unlikely those unavoidable h2o
vapors weren't easily detected by astronomers and their various
sensitive spectrometry methods as of at least decades ago.

Here's yet another image of the sorts of crystal dry minerals that our
moon has to offer. These hue saturations are not bogus/false colors,
just the original mineral colors as having been enhanced on behalf of
honest observationology, similar to the nifty eyecandy that Hubble
gets published and accepted all the time.

Moon in color (natural but obviously saturation levels cranked up)
http://deepskycolors.com/pics/astro/..._MoonColor.jpg

From LRO UV fluorescence imaging, this amount of mineral hue
saturation as secondary reflectance should be at least ten fold better
yet, as well as a good thousand fold better resolution when obtained
from just 50 km. With their LRO extended dynamic range, any sign of
water vapor (atoms of h2o) as coming off such a naked surface of any
deep crater shadowed ice would have been unavoidably unmistakable. Of
course this means there really is not such raw/naked ice to behold,
but instead only vaporized basalt water.

So, apparently our NASA gets to lie their public funded butts off, and
the rest of us don't, because at roughly 100250 ppm of what's
supposedly accessible h2o within moon basalt, as such would have only
required vaporizing a few hundred tonnes of basalt in order to provide
those 25 gallons (94+ kg) of water. In other words, at 250 ppm it
would only require vaporizing 400 tonnes out of the 3.5e3 tonnes of
basalt in order to release 100 kg of its water, along with releasing
at the very least 1000 kg of sodium (though many areas of the lunar
surface are rich or saturated in sodium to the tune of 50,000 ppm),
plus there's many kg worth of other minerals and of course there's
30,000100,000 ppm O2 = 1240t that shouldn't have been all that
unexpected or hard to detect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basalt
Basalt generally has a composition of 45–55 wt% SiO2, 2–6 wt% total
alkalis, 0.5–2.0 wt% TiO2, 5–14 wt% FeO and 14 wt% or more Al2O3.
Contents of CaO are commonly near 10 wt%, those of MgO commonly
in the range 5 to 12 wt%.

High alumina basalts have aluminium contents of 17–19 wt% Al2O3;
boninites have magnesium contents of up to 15% MgO. Rare
feldspathoid-
rich mafic rocks, akin to alkali basalts, may have Na2O + K2O
contents
of 12% or more.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1995/95JE00503.shtml
"Calculation of oxygen yield (as released by hydrogen gas reduction
of ilmenite) show that (1) beneficiated basalt will provide the most
oxygen (8–10%)"

Of course there’s lots of good old hydrogen released, and then helium
3 (3He at 10 ppb) that need not be wasted. In other words, for every
billion tonnes of vaporized basalt and surface deposits we get ten
tonnes and $25B worth of 3He.

“The energy content of 3He is: E(3He)= 2e8 kWh/kg-1 ... If Fusion is
the process of obtaining energy by adding things together” could be
interpreted as worth $2.5M/kg, especially as fossil duels are made
spendy or illegal to use unless their exhaust emissions are fully
certified as green, and average consumer cost of energy hits $0.25/
kwhr

A serious solar farm of mylar mirrors could vaporize lunar basalt
rather nicely, especially in that 3e-15 bar vacuum.

At perhaps as little as one kg per 100 m2 of mylar mirror shouldn't be
so unlikely. A full tonne of such deployed mirrors is thus offering
1e5 m2 of reflected and focused solar energy into a bedrock area of
perhaps 4 m2.

At only 90% efficiency is offering 3.4e6 w/m2, which at 3e-15 bar
should vaporize a hell of a lot of something. That collective 1e5 m2
of mylar mirror efficiency as focused down to 4 m2 should actually
become worth 3.6e6 w/m2. Even if each mirror assembly was worth 100
kg is a seriously dirt cheap alternative for utilizing solar energy,
whereas robotics accomplish most of that exposed physical and
technical process.

Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

wrote:
WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

Given the efforts taken to avoid having the Galileo probe contaminating
Europa at some future time, I imagine the idea of deliberate sending
Earth life to any possible life bearing place is not going to get up.

Sylvia.

On Nov 21, 8:55*pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
wrote:
WHen they were sending rockets to crash into the moon in search of
water, I was wondering why we don't get some thermophilic anaerobic
microbes from underground and send them to different planets to see
what happens, maybe they will create more hospitable environments and
anyway, they will do "exploring" for us better than most robots.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- = -
*Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
* *http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm...k.com/vasjpan2
* ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. *Everything fully disclaimed.}---
* *[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
*[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

Given the efforts taken to avoid having the Galileo probe contaminating
Europa at some future time, I imagine the idea of deliberate sending
Earth life to any possible life bearing place is not going to get up.

Sylvia.

In that case, tell those Venusians to stop directing their panspermia
flu our way every 19 months.

~ BG