Private high flights and definition of space

What is space? And what is launch?

Where is the top of airspace?

It is perfectly legal for any spacecraft on orbit to fly over any
state, even for explicit purpose of spying. The height of orbit has
lower bound due to air friction. But while a spacecraft is taking off
or landing, at which altitude can it fly above territory or
territorial water without needing permission? Same question about
suborbital flights. At which altitude can spacecraft taking off from
Florida cross the Bahamas or Cuba?

If a private spacecraft wishes to make a suborbital flight from
Florida to Jamaica over Cuba or, say, from Cuba to Bahama over
Florida, how high must they fly to keep clear of airspace?

Also, states are liable for all damage done in airspace, on ground or
sea by spacecraft launched from their territory or otherwise
attributable to them, public or private. They do not have the same
upfront liability for damage done by private airplanes that have left
their airspace.

If a private craft undertakes high flights and in course of those
flights does damage, when will the flight qualify as a spaceflight and
make the starting state liable for the damage?

If the private craft is returning from orbit, it certainly had been a
space launch. But if it crashes and due to the technical problems
never reaches space in the attempt to do so, is the starting state
liable?

: Where is the top of airspace?

: It is perfectly legal for any spacecraft on orbit to fly over any
: state, even for explicit purpose of spying. The height of orbit has
: lower bound due to air friction. But while a spacecraft is taking off
: or landing, at which altitude can it fly above territory or
: territorial water without needing permission? Same question about
: suborbital flights. At which altitude can spacecraft taking off from
: Florida cross the Bahamas or Cuba?

Undefined by current law. There is no generally accepted legal
definition of "space" or, for that matter, "spacecraft" or "orbit". There
are 'de facto' and scientific definitions, but how they would hold up
in a court is another story. The US has long argued against defining such
terms, saying that 'de facto' practice was "good enough." As you clearly
see, the traditional 'de facto' standards may not be good enough for long.
Traditionally, any vehicle launched can overfly any other nation as long
as it is high enough to "not interfere" with regular air traffic and the
overflown nation doesn't shoot it down. US space launches from Florida
are 'dog legged' to avoid overflying Cuba, but the US maintains that it
isn't *required* to do this. After a failed launch resulted in the
famed "dead Cuban Cow" incident - and raised worries of the Cubans
salvaging spysat chunks - the US simply adopted the policy.
Nations have overflown one another during various sub-orbital missile
tests. Sometimes there is media complaining, but as of yet no recourse to
international tribunals or attempts to clarify the law.

: If a private spacecraft wishes to make a suborbital flight from
: Florida to Jamaica over Cuba or, say, from Cuba to Bahama over
: Florida, how high must they fly to keep clear of airspace?

The US might well take military action in response to any Cuban
launch overflying Florida - law and precedent be damned. Insurance concerns
alone would probably keep 'private' flights from overflying Cuba.
As a practical matter, whatever altitude is beyond normal ATC and that
the Cubans can't/won't shoot you down at.


: If a private craft undertakes high flights and in course of those
: flights does damage, when will the flight qualify as a spaceflight and
: make the starting state liable for the damage?

: If the private craft is returning from orbit, it certainly had been a
: space launch. But if it crashes and due to the technical problems
: never reaches space in the attempt to do so, is the starting state

Generally speaking, the consensus is that any attempted launch
qualifies whether it achieves space or not. The state the rocket is launched
from has "strict liability" in most circumstances -- for example, if a
Branson rocket launched from Florida crashed in Cuba, the Cuban could demand
money straight from the US government -- which should pay. It would then
be up to the US to collect from Branson or insurance or whatever.
Naturally, there are all sorts of unsettled questions, such as:
Can states over ride the liability convention with mutual agreements? These
issues will probably be hotly contested some day.

regards,
------------------------------------------------------------

I think the USSR promised to down any craft flying over their territory
below 110km.
Spacecraft getting below 160 km usually decay within a day.
Only naval spysats dare below 250km and only occasionally.

In article ,
(Crown-Horned Snorkack) wrote:

What is space?

It's the region beyond the atmosphere, usually defined as starting 100
km above sea level.

And what is launch?

That seems like a trivial question at first, but is somewhat interesting
when you think about it. I'd say it's the point at which your craft is
lifting itself based on rocketry (i.e. expulsion of reaction mass)
rather than by aerodynamic lift (or being supported by something else).

Where is the top of airspace?

Where space begins, I would say (100 km again).

It is perfectly legal for any spacecraft on orbit to fly over any
state, even for explicit purpose of spying.

Legal under which code of laws?

,------------------------------------------------------------------.
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Crown-Horned Snorkack wrote:
Where is the top of airspace?

... while a spacecraft is taking off
or landing, at which altitude can it fly above territory or
territorial water without needing permission? Same question about
suborbital flights. At which altitude can spacecraft taking off from
Florida cross the Bahamas or Cuba?

For Cuba, it would be whatever the top of Cuba's surface to
air missile (SAM) envelope is for targets moving at supersonic
to hypersonic velocity.

- Ed Kyle

(Crown-Horned Snorkack) :

What is space? And what is launch?

Space = up there.
Lauunch = off the ground.

Where is the top of airspace?

Depends who you talk to.

It is perfectly legal for any spacecraft on orbit to fly over any
state, even for explicit purpose of spying. The height of orbit has
lower bound due to air friction. But while a spacecraft is taking off
or landing, at which altitude can it fly above territory or
territorial water without needing permission? Same question about
suborbital flights. At which altitude can spacecraft taking off from
Florida cross the Bahamas or Cuba?

If you are less than 100 KM then more fool you. I don't know Cuba's Ground
to Air Defense but why go lower and make it easy for them?

If a private spacecraft wishes to make a suborbital flight from
Florida to Jamaica over Cuba or, say, from Cuba to Bahama over
Florida, how high must they fly to keep clear of airspace?

Again, 100 KM. Play games with nervous countries is dumb.

Also, states are liable for all damage done in airspace, on ground or
sea by spacecraft launched from their territory or otherwise
attributable to them, public or private. They do not have the same
upfront liability for damage done by private airplanes that have left
their airspace.

I don't think that is quite right.

If a private craft undertakes high flights and in course of those
flights does damage, when will the flight qualify as a spaceflight and
make the starting state liable for the damage?

When the starting state is willing to call it space flight.

If the private craft is returning from orbit, it certainly had been a
space launch. But if it crashes and due to the technical problems
never reaches space in the attempt to do so, is the starting state
liable?

If it is, don't think that the lawyers for that country are not going to
strip you to the bone.


It sounds like you want to cut corners. However, when playing with the big
boys - DON'T!

Earl Colby Pottinger


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