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#21
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The end of Constellation?
On 22 Jan, 14:05, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:44 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: There is one additional remark I would like to make and it is this. If posters are cofusing Iraq with Palestine one wonders how competant they are in general. People aren't doing that, you loon. Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no training program. - Ian Parker |
#22
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The end of Constellation?
Ian Parker wrote:
:On 22 Jan, 14:05, (Rand Simberg) wrote: : On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:44 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, : Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow : in such a way as to indicate that: : : There is one additional remark I would like to make and it is this. If : posters are cofusing Iraq with Palestine one wonders how competant : they are in general. : : People aren't doing that, you loon. : :Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". :Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no :training program. : This is rather like saying that everyone uses the word 'red' for the colour of blood, so there must be a training program and a big conspiracy to cause that. People call you a loon because you keep saying loony things, Ian. It's observation, not abuse. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is only stupid." -- Heinrich Heine |
#23
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The end of Constellation?
On 22 Jan, 16:42, Fred J. McCall wrote:
:Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". :Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no :training program. : This is rather like saying that everyone uses the word 'red' for the colour of blood, so there must be a training program and a big conspiracy to cause that. No it isn't. It is not an expression that should be used. It seems to be a uniform term of abuse (possibly) dictated by shrinks. We should not be using such expressions in our dealings with each other. It also happens to be true that the people you call loony are usually right. It is the people you describe as sane that have landed us in the almighty mess were in. My first reaction to "cast lead" is really to let both sides stew. I have precious little sympathy for either. Hamas are, lets face it, extremists, but the Israelis are bone from the neck up. Just like you. - Ian Parker |
#24
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The end of Constellation?
Ian Parker wrote:
:On 22 Jan, 16:42, Fred J. McCall wrote: : : :Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". : :Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no : :training program. : : : : This is rather like saying that everyone uses the word 'red' for the : colour of blood, so there must be a training program and a big : conspiracy to cause that. : : :No it isn't. It is not an expression that should be used. It seems to :be a uniform term of abuse (possibly) dictated by shrinks. We should :not be using such expressions in our dealings with each other. : Yes it is. It is a description of specific behaviours. It seems to be uniform to you because you are pretty much uniformly loony. If you don't like being called a loon, stop being one. : :It also happens to be true that the people you call loony are usually :right. : Ian, so far as I can recall you have NEVER been right. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is only stupid." -- Heinrich Heine |
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The end of Constellation?
On 22 Jan, 16:13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Ian Parker wrote: : :To me the only rational decision is to pull the plug. : The sane among us wish that you would. I could say the same of you. I am usually right in the things I say. The truths may sometimes be unconfortable. For example there has been no really solid argument produced about the benefits of manned spaceflight. The ISS has cost a packet with slim returns in the scientific sense. Unmanned flight has revolutionized our understanding. It is usually within budget too. I would like to know what Consellation astronauts are going to do while on the Moon. Are they going to do anything that could not far better and cheaper be done by an unmanned rover. Consellation is the problem Obama and the new director will have to face. Unmanned exploration is not a problem. Administration might be rejigged but there is no argument for substantial changes in direction. Again, people talk glibly about space colonies. The technology is not remotely there. In that sense I suppose you could say it is a non problem although serious scientists who I feel should no better have advocated it. It is a problem in that certain posters have shown themselves both devoid of any sort of understanding and devoid of any common curtesy. SSP which would energise desalination may or may not be dooable. SSP (desalination) is infinitely preferable to any colony in terms of the area released for human habitation. Vast tracks of land on Earth are arid and desalination (a far smaller area of solar collectors would be required per person) than any colony. These are all facts which some of us have taken on board but you and some others do not appe\r to have. If a convincing route to SSP could be demonstrated I am sure money would be there. The onus is on a convincing case. SSP in fact does not involve heavy indivisible loads and Ares for this is completely redundant. An X-20 would be relevant - if it worked. The politics of the Middle East are relevant in so far that they call into question the capacity for logical thought. I would NOT want to put Olmert or anyone else in his government in charge of SSP or anything important for that matter. They have demonstrated admirable how to make a mess of things. When I was younger I used to watch Colditz. It was about a POW camp and the prisoners had an "escape committee" that got people out, largely through tunnels. One friend I had who was German in fact got quite upset at the way her country was portrayed. Herr Kommandant (Olmert) tried to strangle Gaza. He now admits he can't find all the tunnels. If that is not moronity I don't know what is. I don't support Hamas but I did identify with the prisoners in Colditz. I can't help half admiring Palestinian ingenuity. - Ian Parker |
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The end of Constellation?
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:38:04 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On 22 Jan, 14:05, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:44 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: There is one additional remark I would like to make and it is this. If posters are cofusing Iraq with Palestine one wonders how competant they are in general. People aren't doing that, you loon. Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no training program. No one needs a "training program" to recognize looniness, or loons. |
#27
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The end of Constellation?
Ian Parker wrote:
:On 22 Jan, 16:13, Fred J. McCall wrote: : Ian Parker wrote: : : : : :To me the only rational decision is to pull the plug. : : : : The sane among us wish that you would. : : :I could say the same of you. : Ian, judging by past history, you COULD say just about anything. It's one of the many reasons we call you a loon. : :I am usually right in the things I say. : So you reserve all the wrong things for posting here? So it would appear, because I don't think I've ever seen you be 'right' about anything. :The truths may sometimes be unconfortable. : :For example there has been no really solid argument produced about the :benefits of manned spaceflight. : Of course there has. You just reset and elide it all. : :The ISS has cost a packet with slim :returns in the scientific sense. : Irrelevant, since ISS became an 'international program' for political purposes. The very sort of program you recommend that ALL space should be, in point of fact. : :Unmanned flight has revolutionized our understanding. : Not as much as manned flight has. : :It is usually within budget too. : Hogwash. : :I would like to know what Consellation astronauts :are going to do while on the Moon. Are they going to do anything that :could not far better and cheaper be done by an unmanned rover. : We've already established what the differential is between an unmanned rover and men, Ian. It's in favour of manned by several orders of magnitude. : :Consellation is the problem Obama and the new director will have to :face. Unmanned exploration is not a problem. Administration might be :rejigged but there is no argument for substantial changes in :direction. : You're not paying attention, Ian. There's lots of call for not doing anything but Earth science. : :Again, people talk glibly about space colonies. The technology is not :remotely there. In that sense I suppose you could say it is a non roblem although serious scientists who I feel should no better have :advocated it. It is a problem in that certain posters have shown :themselves both devoid of any sort of understanding and devoid of any :common curtesy. : Yes, it is. We've tried to educate you, but you seem incapable of learning. : :SSP which would energise desalination may or may not be dooable. SSP desalination) is infinitely preferable to any colony in terms of the :area released for human habitation. Vast tracks of land on Earth are :arid and desalination (a far smaller area of solar collectors would be :required per person) than any colony. : SSP has nothing to do with 'desalination'. : :These are all facts which some of us have taken on board but you and :some others do not appe\r to have. If a convincing route to SSP could :be demonstrated I am sure money would be there. The onus is on a :convincing case. SSP in fact does not involve heavy indivisible loads :and Ares for this is completely redundant. An X-20 would be relevant - :if it worked. : Hogwash. Either you need a bunch of people and industry out in space to fabricate components or you need medium and heavy lift vehicles to boost it from Earth. Those are your choices. Your silly wet dreams about millions of little self-replicating fragments are exactly that; wet dreams. : :The politics of the Middle East are relevant ... : No, they are not. This is another reason people call you a loon, Ian. snip irrelevant crap : :I don't support Hamas but I did identify with the prisoners in :Colditz. I can't help half admiring Palestinian ingenuity. : What 'ingenuity'? Over the decades they've gone from producing a lot of the technicians and professionals of the region to a group whose highest accomplishment is blowing themselves up and self-inflicting at every turn. -- "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is only stupid." -- Heinrich Heine |
#28
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The end of Constellation?
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Ian Parker wrote:
The operation in Gaza was called "Cast Lead". I can't help remembering that the Shuttle carries 2 tons of the stuff! The issue to be is one of credibility quite apart from anything else. Two tons of lead. What ever for? Balast? |
#29
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The end of Constellation?
On 23 Jan, 10:18, William Elliot wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Ian Parker wrote: The operation in Gaza was called "Cast Lead". I can't help remembering that the Shuttle carries 2 tons of the stuff! The issue to be is one of credibility quite apart from anything else. Two tons of lead. *What ever for? *Balast? It is balance. Mistakes were made about the location of the center of lift. Of couse for stable flight CG and CL must coincide. I think though that this is symtomatic of things, The Shuttle is badly designed. - Ian Parker |
#30
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The end of Constellation?
On 22 Jan, 19:10, (Rand Simberg) wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:38:04 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On 22 Jan, 14:05, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:35:44 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Ian Parker made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: There is one additional remark I would like to make and it is this. If posters are cofusing Iraq with Palestine one wonders how competant they are in general. People aren't doing that, you loon. Look William Eliot has with the usual accompaniment of "loons". Everyone seems to use very similar words of abuse. Sure there is no training program. No one needs a "training program" to recognize looniness, or loons. Well all I have ever said is to point out manifest failures. 1) Iraq 2) The Shuttle 3) The Israeli blocade of Gaza 4) The hype of space colonies. The fact that vast tracts of Earth could be made habitable at vastly reduced cost. 5) The fact that far more scientific imformation has been obtained by unmanned spacecaft than manned. All these facts are indisputable. It takes considerable training to dispute them. In fact the ONLY way they can be disputed is to sling mud and denigrate people personally. - Ian Parker |
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