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Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 19th 16, 10:52 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

NASA's Physics-Defying EM Drive Passes Peer Review:

"The reactionless thruster known as the EM Drive has stirred heated debate over
the past few years. If successful it could provide a new and powerful method to
take our spacecraft to the stars, but it has faced harsh criticism because the
drive seems to violate the most fundamental laws of physics. One of the biggest
criticisms has been that the work wasn’t submitted for peer review, and until
that happens it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Well, this week that milestone was
reached with a peer-reviewed paper. The EM Drive has officially passed peer
review."

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briankob.../#191c156f76e2

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  #22  
Old November 23rd 16, 06:16 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
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Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 9:37:26 PM UTC+13, Non Newtonian Propulsion wrote:
For the fact that action reaction violation need the change of the first law of newtonian inertia
and for the fact that is in contact with the terrestrial environment

https://neolegesmotus.wordpress.com/...s-another-law/

https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/com...of_the_law_of/


There are theories of 'electric gravity' that have circulated for over a century now. These hold that gravity is a sort of London Force that neutral matter exhibits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkWiBxWieQU

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/material...ecular-forces/

People don't seem to realise that rockets - particularly photonic rockets - have the ability to do essentially all we wish to do in the cosmos, particularly if the massless particle is not a photon, but a neutrino!

The sun and all stars are copious sources of power! At the temperature of the solar surface each square meter emits sufficient energy to produce 0.21 Newtons of force. Any photonic system, whether a photon rocket, a Bob Forward style light-sail, or a Young Bae style photonic thruster, that produces more than 0.21 Newtons of force per square meter, handily survives conditions more severe than that found on the surface of the Sun, or any other G-type star.

Giant Birefringent Optics (GBO) were invented in 2000 and achieved nearly perfect reflective efficiencies! So, only one part per ten million of incident energy was absorbed by the system! A very light weight system too! That means that a 2.8 BILLION watt light source illuminating one square meter would only heat it up to less than room temperature! Enough to push the few grams of plastic sheeting with a force of 1 kg per square meter!

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/287/5462/2451

The sun's surface is only 61 million watts per square meter by comparison.

The surface of the sun puts out enough photons to produce 1.275x10^18 Newtons of force. 129.8 trillion tons of continuous force!

This requires a lot of energy. The sun converts 4 million tons of mass into photons every second, and blows off 1 million tons of matter every second into the solar wind.

A positron is the antimatter version of an electron. Its positively charged. For that reason positrons and electrons attract one another just as protons and electrons do. However, when positrons pair up with electrons, they form positronium, not hydrogen atoms. They're very light weight as well. They're also very short lived, since the positron and electron collide in a few microseconds flashing into gamma rays.

Positrons result when intense electric and magnetic fields are present. These are present when you use atomic scale waveguides to slow the speed of light to very low speeds. At velocities of 20 METERS per second - instead of 300,000,000 meters per second - electric and magnetic fields are very intense! In the right kind of photonic crystal - with the appropriate waveguide structure - positrons and electrons can be efficiently made. They can also be made to interact with the waveguide material and neighbouring positronium pairs in such a way, as to stabilise their decay and extend their life indefinitely.

Using 'smart' quasi crystals these collections of positronium molecules can be made to approach the density of iron - 8,000 kg per cubic meter. The polarisation (spintronics) of the positronium can be organised in such a way as to cause electron neutrino beams to be formed instead of the usual gamma rays. Crystal structures can be made in such a way as to cause the massless particles produced to self collimate

http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrar...icleid=1281477

The neutrino beams impart force without creating a sensible exhaust since neutrinos pass through matter easily. Gamma rays can be made in a photonic crystal in such a way, as to twin into lower energy photons, producing more photons at lower frequencies, creating a very efficient light bulb! This has many uses.

http://www.optics.rochester.edu/work...ald%20Dore.pdf

All this can be built into nano-structures that self replicate and self organise using available materials.

On the Earth's surface, solar intensity peaks around 1000 Watts/m2 and with day/night cycle and clouds, averages 250 Watts/m2 over the surface. A self replicating machine system that masses a few nanograms will easily double in number using materials found on the Earth's surface once every hour or so. So, in 10 hours one machine cell will grow into a few micrograms of cells. In 20 hours one cell will grow into a few milligrams of cells. In 30 hours one cell will grow into a few grams of cells. In 40 hours one cell will grow into a few kilograms of cells. In 48 hours - one cell will grow into one metric ton of cells. Enough cells to capture the sunlight across 1 square kilometer of surface. Every day 21.6 trillion Joules (6 million kWh) of energy is captured and stored as positronium inside the machine cells as described above. That's 240 milligrams of positronium per day!

Now to accelerate at 10 gees from Earth and land softly on the solar surface, requires 21 hours 42 minutes 8.77 seconds. An object following this sort of trajectory achieves a top speed of 1.277% the speed of light. It must go through a delta vee of 2.554% light speed - and requires 2.522% of the take off mass be positronium! So, that means 9.52 grams of these self replicating machines can be dispatched to the solar surface each day from Earth - after two days after completion of the construction of the first self replicating cell described here.

Less than three days after the completion of the first cell, a stream of cells arrive at a rate of 9.52 grams per day. Just one day's production is enough. Starting with 10 grams, and that covers 10 square meters on the sun with the same efficiency as it does on Earth, except here, with the material already in plasma form, and over 2% is heavy material, judging by the solar spectra, and solar wind, and there is over 60 megawatts per square meter available! So, replication times are on the order of a second! Starting with 10 square meters after the first 24 hours - and organising and adapting the smart self organising machinery to survive in the solar environment - it takes 59 replication periods to cover the entire surface of the Sun - and begin capturing 4 million tons per second of energy, along with 50,000 tons per second of heavy materials, and eject them from the Sun organised as an antimatter powered utility fog, to meet all the needs of all people everywhere.

Won't the sky darken and it get very cold on Earth if the entire Sun is covered with advanced self replicating solar panels? NO! Why? Because the backs of the panels are equipped with arrays of sensors and emitters. This lets the smart panels treat the entire 1.39 million kilometer diameter disk of the Sun as a big telescope lens with which to sense other objects in space.

The program is rather simple, to harvest energy and material, and maintain the same visibility to all objects visible from the solar surface. Merely sense an object in space, send the same energy from all parts of the solar surface visible to the object to it as it has always received.

If we want, we can make adjustments to that total, to warm up Mars and Ceres, cool down Venus and Mercury, maintain conditions on Earth more stable. We could also beam energy where needed for laser light sails. We could also use this as a large weapon system or a communications beacon. The energy could also be used to run vast computing systems that would respond to queries beamed at the sun, and get them beamed back. The solar surface equipped this way can also act as an active super telescope to provide all answers to questions any human or neo-human astronomer might think to ask.

With a mass ratio of positronium to ship mass extracted from the Sun, of 80 to 1 and requiring two boosts one to speed up and one to slow down, the material coming out of the sun after four days following the construction of the first self replicating machine cell, allows us to boost material to 97.53% light speed and slow it down to interplanetary speeds!

This takes 3.1 light years distance of boost at one gee to achieve. It takes 4.4 years star time and 2.2 years ship time. At cruise speed 4.51 light years are traversed for every year on board. Thirty years spent aboard this ship takes you 100 light years from Earth - a volume of space that contains 512 G-type stars!

Of course, on the interplanetary scale we can do anything we like. With 16,830.72 tonnes of anti matter for every man woman and child on Earth, along with 210.38 tonnes of any material desired - nothing is beyond our capacity. For example, the annual production of positronium for 9,301 persons is sufficient to reduce the entire mass of Ceres (9.393x10^20 kg) to plasma, and reassemble it into ANYTHING! For example, thousands upon thousands of McKendree cylinders or Bishop Rings whose combined surface area is hundreds of times the surface area of Earth!

http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/McKendree_cylinder

To travel from Earth to Pluto (current distance 33.93 AU)

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Pluto

takes 16.65 days at one gee. Top speed is 2.353% light speed. This requires 4.6% of the take off weight be positronium to complete the two boosts. This scales travel in the solar system. It takes 3.5 hours at one gee to travel to the Moon.

This is what you can do with rockets designed appropriately, and solar energy properly harnessed.


  #23  
Old November 23rd 16, 08:37 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
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Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFe6-MnJVU&app=desktop

In the movie Oblivion a home and vehicle system is portrayed that could be built using the technology described previously. 1.875 billion homes house 7.500 billion persons.

180 ton homes with an average of four inhabitants is 45 tons per person. 337.5 billion tons for 7.5 billion people.

This requires 0.2% of solar output be redirected to controlled neutrino blasts to sustain this infrastructure. Neutrino exhausts are required for this power output not to overheat Earth.

One flying home every 651 meters in a close packed array over the surface of the Earth supports the human population on Earth today.

Such homes equipped with ballistic vehicles with two gee boost travels to the antipodes in 20 minutes. So the movie Oblivion portrays the global village using this technology. The surface is left natural.

The homes can travel to any point in space and use utility fog process materials to any purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mPz70mIZU8&app=desktop


  #24  
Old November 24th 16, 02:22 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
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Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 9:37:49 PM UTC+13, William Mook wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFe6-MnJVU&app=desktop

In the movie Oblivion a home and vehicle system is portrayed that could be built using the technology described previously. 1.875 billion homes house 7.500 billion persons.

180 ton homes with an average of four inhabitants is 45 tons per person. 337.5 billion tons for 7.5 billion people.

This requires 0.2% of solar output be redirected to controlled neutrino blasts to sustain this infrastructure. Neutrino exhausts are required for this power output not to overheat Earth.

One flying home every 651 meters in a close packed array over the surface of the Earth supports the human population on Earth today.

Such homes equipped with ballistic vehicles with two gee boost travels to the antipodes in 20 minutes. So the movie Oblivion portrays the global village using this technology. The surface is left natural.

The homes can travel to any point in space and use utility fog process materials to any purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mPz70mIZU8&app=desktop


With 4 million tons of positronium being produced per second from the Sun, a total of 24 quadrillions tons per second of matter can be converted to plasma, sorted and reassembled into anything. It would take 0.04 seconds to dig a 100 meter diameter tunnel beneath all 64.28 million km of roadways and 1.14 million km of rail - and process all the material into 150,000 metric tons of products for every man woman and child on the face of the Earth!
  #25  
Old November 24th 16, 03:49 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
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Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Review of Rocket Propulsion Elements:

Apollo rocket engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq3phcv-NbI

Nuclear engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs3zNwXhzSA

Nuclear Pulse engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYoLcJuBtOw

Photon rocket
Electron–positron annihilation occurs when an electron and a positron (the electron's antiparticle) collide. The result of the collision at low energies is the annihilation of the electron and positron, and the creation of gamma ray photons.

At high energies, other particles, such as B mesons or the W and Z bosons, can be created. All processes must satisfy a number of conservation laws, including:

Conservation of electric charge. The net charge before and after is zero..
Conservation of linear momentum and total energy.
Conservation of angular momentum.

As with any two charged objects, electrons and positrons may also interact with each other without annihilating, in general by elastic scattering. This can be used in conjunction with photonic crystals to cause gamma ray pairs to self collimate.

By changing crystalline features, gammay ray pairs can be directed producing a propulsive skin. Such a skin can also act as a reactive armour to deflect incoming radiation and particles arriving at high speed.

Neutrino rocket
Since neutrinos also have a smaller mass than electrons, it is also possible for the annihilation to produce one or more neutrino–antineutrino pairs. This is an important feature for operation of photonic thrust propulsion systems in inhabited regions.

Reverse process
The reverse reaction, electron–positron creation, is a form of pair production governed by two-photon physics. This is an important detail in that it is possible using this process to efficiently capture sunlight and light at the surface of stars, and produce electron-positron pairs that are then stored in crystalline forms created by self-replicating machine systems made from the heavy materials found in the star's atmosphere itself.

A 1 meter diameter sphere of positronium stored at 8 g/cc holds sufficient positronium to power all the world's industry today! Something the size of a Citation Mustang, massing 2.5 metric tons, carrying 4.0 metric tons of positronium, is capable of

Vf / c = TANH( LN( MR ) ) = TANH( LN( 4.0/2.5 ) ) = 43.82% light speed

This is sufficient to boost at one gee, and come to a stop 3053 astronomical units distant. (0.0483 light years) It takes 159.98 days star time and 157.67 days ship time to carry out this mission. For comparison the distance between Earth and Pluto is less than 40 AU and it takes less than 17 days to boost there at one gee. So, such a ship as described above, could carry people around the solar system with ease.



  #26  
Old November 24th 16, 05:15 AM posted to sci.space.policy
William Mook[_2_]
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Posts: 3,840
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Look, a 60 meter diameter sphere has a projected area of 2827.4 square meters. That's 0.6987 acres. Now using the Coanda effect, to accelerate air using ionic means, to a speed that permits lifting 180 metric tons (1765.2 kN) means that at 5,000 meters with an air density of 0.82 kg/m3 - we have a velocity of 39.1 m/sec - 140 km/hr - to produce suffiicent lift. That's 90,467.7 kg/sec mass flow rate. This implies a jet power of 40.69 MW! Vastly less than a neutrino rocket! This is supplied by 14.3 grams of positronium per year! 1 kg of positronium supplies a home for 70 years!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_PBWtV1kRI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9m6KzRMWnA

1.86 billion homes - with an average population of four persons - supports 7.50 billion persons. Flying homes leave the surface uninhabited, a nature preserve, to be enjoyed by all.

At two gees - the acceleration you feel when a plane rotates into flight mode - you can go to any point on the planet in less than 34 minutes! Top speed is twice escape velocity, and with positronium as a power source, this isn't a problem whatever!

D = 20000 * (T/33.66)^2
T = 33.66 * (D/20000)^.5

where D is distance in km and T is time in minutes. So, it takes 2.38 minutes to travel 100 km at 2 gees.

This turns the entire Earth into a global village. Homes of course can move anywhere they like, and enjoy any sort of scenery, free of the Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH_MBcwkv6w

Such aerial abodes may also boost anywhere in the solar system; where we can wander anywhere, as we wish; boosting at one gee with neutrino/photonic rockets!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6goNzXrmFs









  #27  
Old November 24th 16, 09:01 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
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Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Il giorno sabato 19 novembre 2016 23:52:25 UTC+1, ha scritto:
NASA's Physics-Defying EM Drive Passes Peer Review:

"The reactionless thruster known as the EM Drive has stirred heated debate over
the past few years. If successful it could provide a new and powerful method to
take our spacecraft to the stars, but it has faced harsh criticism because the
drive seems to violate the most fundamental laws of physics. One of the biggest
criticisms has been that the work wasn’t submitted for peer review, and until
that happens it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Well, this week that milestone was
reached with a peer-reviewed paper. The EM Drive has officially passed peer
review."

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briankob.../#191c156f76e2




if the III Newton jumps or better circumvent

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/1.B36120

It is necessary also rewrite the I and II principle of Newtonian dynamics .... otherwise you end up with two problems of which I do not know what is the most :

1) violation of the conservation of momentum

2) violation of energy conservation

E.Laureti






  #28  
Old November 24th 16, 12:38 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 1,714
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 9:37:49 PM UTC+13, William Mook wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tFe6-MnJVU&app=desktop

In the movie Oblivion a home and vehicle system is portrayed that could be built using the technology described previously. 1.875 billion homes house 7.500 billion persons.

180 ton homes with an average of four inhabitants is 45 tons per person. 337.5 billion tons for 7.5 billion people.

This requires 0.2% of solar output be redirected to controlled neutrino blasts to sustain this infrastructure. Neutrino exhausts are required for this power output not to overheat Earth.

One flying home every 651 meters in a close packed array over the surface of the Earth supports the human population on Earth today.

Such homes equipped with ballistic vehicles with two gee boost travels to the antipodes in 20 minutes. So the movie Oblivion portrays the global village using this technology. The surface is left natural.

The homes can travel to any point in space and use utility fog process materials to any purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mPz70mIZU8&app=desktop


With 4 million tons of positronium being produced per second from the Sun, a total of 24 quadrillions tons per second of matter can be converted to plasma, sorted and reassembled into anything. It would take 0.04 seconds to dig a 100 meter diameter tunnel beneath all 64.28 million km of roadways and 1.14 million km of rail - and process all the material into 150,000 metric tons of products for every man woman and child on the face of the Earth!


This is science fiction. It does not belong in sci.space.policy. Your
beautiful mind is failing you again.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #29  
Old November 24th 16, 12:41 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,714
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

In article ,
says...

Il giorno sabato 19 novembre 2016 23:52:25 UTC+1, ha scritto:
NASA's Physics-Defying EM Drive Passes Peer Review:

"The reactionless thruster known as the EM Drive has stirred heated debate over
the past few years. If successful it could provide a new and powerful method to
take our spacecraft to the stars, but it has faced harsh criticism because the
drive seems to violate the most fundamental laws of physics. One of the biggest
criticisms has been that the work wasn?t submitted for peer review, and until
that happens it shouldn?t be taken seriously. Well, this week that milestone was
reached with a peer-reviewed paper. The EM Drive has officially passed peer
review."

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briankob.../#191c156f76e2



if the III Newton jumps or better circumvent

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/1.B36120

It is necessary also rewrite the I and II principle of Newtonian dynamics ... otherwise you end up with two problems of which I do not know what is the most :

1) violation of the conservation of momentum

2) violation of energy conservation

E.Laureti


I'm still betting this thing is just a lame excuse for a photon emitter.
All those microwaves bouncing around in that metal chamber has to
produce heat that goes somewhere. If the heat is radiated away in a
non-uniform way, it would produce a very small net thrust due to the
emission of photons in the infrared range (and possibly other ranges).

I'd like to see them take the same amount of energy put into this thing
and instead stick it into the most efficient light emitters we've got
and focus all the light in one direction. Then compare the results.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #30  
Old November 24th 16, 05:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Non Newtonian Propulsion
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Emdrive might change the law of inertia (for the Earth too!)

Il giorno giovedì 24 novembre 2016 13:41:29 UTC+1, Jeff Findley ha scritto:
In article ,
says...

Il giorno sabato 19 novembre 2016 23:52:25 UTC+1, ha scritto:
NASA's Physics-Defying EM Drive Passes Peer Review:

"The reactionless thruster known as the EM Drive has stirred heated debate over
the past few years. If successful it could provide a new and powerful method to
take our spacecraft to the stars, but it has faced harsh criticism because the
drive seems to violate the most fundamental laws of physics. One of the biggest
criticisms has been that the work wasn?t submitted for peer review, and until
that happens it shouldn?t be taken seriously. Well, this week that milestone was
reached with a peer-reviewed paper. The EM Drive has officially passed peer
review."

See:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briankob.../#191c156f76e2



if the III Newton jumps or better circumvent

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/1.B36120

It is necessary also rewrite the I and II principle of Newtonian dynamics ... otherwise you end up with two problems of which I do not know what is the most :

1) violation of the conservation of momentum

2) violation of energy conservation

E.Laureti


I'm still betting this thing is just a lame excuse for a photon emitter.
All those microwaves bouncing around in that metal chamber has to
produce heat that goes somewhere. If the heat is radiated away in a
non-uniform way, it would produce a very small net thrust due to the
emission of photons in the infrared range (and possibly other ranges).


good idea!



I'd like to see them take the same amount of energy put into this thing
and instead stick it into the most efficient light emitters we've got
and focus all the light in one direction. Then compare the results.



Do you know if it exist the project to test emdrive in freespace near the earth?




Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.


 




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