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ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 16th 09, 03:46 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rich[_1_]
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Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

$150 billion to date. Has it been worth it?
  #2  
Old July 16th 09, 07:19 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.Bee
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Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

On Jul 16, 4:46*am, Rich wrote:
$150 billion to date. *Has it been worth it?


yawn

I'll see your $150 billion and raise you US taxpayer's expenditure on
weapons and international aggression, bribery and coercion over any
random period of your own choosing.

Try defending this utter waste of resources:

http://costofwar.com/
  #3  
Old July 16th 09, 06:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rick Evans[_4_]
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Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

"Rich" wrote in message ...
$150 billion to date. Has it been worth it?

Nope.
--

Rick Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lon -71° 05'
Lat +42° 11'

  #4  
Old July 16th 09, 06:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rick Evans[_4_]
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Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

"Chris.Bee" wrote in message ...
On Jul 16, 4:46 am, Rich wrote:
$150 billion to date. Has it been worth it?


yawn

I'll see your $150 billion and raise you US taxpayer's expenditure ...gibber..
Try defending this utter waste of resources:
http://costofwar.com/


Two stupids don't make a smart.

--

Rick Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lon -71° 05'
Lat +42° 11'


  #5  
Old July 16th 09, 07:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SkyGuide
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Posts: 46
Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

On Jul 15, 10:46*pm, Rich wrote:
$150 billion to date. *Has it been worth it?


Rich, where do you get that number from?

I had a difficult time finding a good answer as to the actual costs of
the ISS and the STS, and had to do a bit of research to find decent
numbers.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports that since 1985
Congress has funded around $35 billion to build the ISS (http://
www.gao.gov/new.items/d04201t.pdf). The GAO bumps that number to $100
billion since 1985 when the cost ""to develop, assemble and operate"
the station are also considered (http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/
ns98212t.pdf).

Big numbers, to be sure. But, as your estimate is 50% higher than the
largest numbers I've ever heard I am curious as to its source. Did
the GAO "skip" great big chunks of the cost?


Thanks! ~Michael


(Full disclosure - for the past 5 years I have had a minor association
with the Jet Propulsion Lab, which while "owned" by CalTech, works
under contract for NASA.)
  #6  
Old July 16th 09, 07:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SkyGuide
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Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

And the best guesstimates of the costs of the other two programs
mentioned in the Subject header for this thread:

Skylab ~$10 billion in 2009 dollars
Mir ~$5 billion in 2009 dollars

Assuming that your $150 billion ISS cost is correct, the ISS is 30x
more expensive than Mir, and 15x more expensive than Skylab. (If ISS
costs are indeed closer to $100 billion, then Mir would be 20x and
Skylab 10x more affordable).

But, is the comparison to the older stations valid? The ISS is so
much larger and more capable, so that comparing the cost if the ISS to
the cost of Skylab is like comparing the cost of my van to the cost of
a bus. An interesting benchmark, perhaps, but not telling in and of
itself.


~Michael
  #7  
Old July 16th 09, 10:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rich[_1_]
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Posts: 751
Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

On Jul 16, 2:26*pm, SkyGuide wrote:
And the best guesstimates of the costs of the other two programs
mentioned in the Subject header for this thread:

Skylab ~$10 billion in 2009 dollars
Mir ~$5 billion in 2009 dollars

Assuming that your $150 billion ISS cost is correct, the ISS is 30x
more expensive than Mir, and 15x more expensive than Skylab. *(If ISS
costs are indeed closer to $100 billion, then Mir would be 20x and
Skylab 10x more affordable).

But, is the comparison to the older stations valid? *The ISS is so
much larger and more capable


Of what? Acting as a more comfortable hotel in space for billionaires
and astronauts with nothing to do?

  #8  
Old July 16th 09, 10:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Rich[_1_]
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Posts: 751
Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

On Jul 16, 2:09*pm, SkyGuide wrote:
On Jul 15, 10:46*pm, Rich wrote:

$150 billion to date. *Has it been worth it?


Rich, where do you get that number from?

I had a difficult time finding a good answer as to the actual costs of
the ISS and the STS, and had to do a bit of research to find decent
numbers.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports that since 1985
Congress has funded around $35 billion to build the ISS (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04201t.pdf). *The GAO bumps that number to $100
billion since 1985 when the cost ""to develop, assemble and operate"
the station are also considered (http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/
ns98212t.pdf).

That is the "official" cost which is predicated on the initial
projected cost having been correct. When has this ever happened? The
true figure is at least $150B. Which places it about $50B beyond what
Apollo cost in current dollars. For what?


  #9  
Old July 16th 09, 11:15 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Andrew Smallshaw
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Posts: 206
Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

On 2009-07-16, SkyGuide wrote:

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports that since 1985
Congress has funded around $35 billion to build the ISS (http://
www.gao.gov/new.items/d04201t.pdf). The GAO bumps that number to $100
billion since 1985 when the cost ""to develop, assemble and operate"
the station are also considered (http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/
ns98212t.pdf).

Big numbers, to be sure. But, as your estimate is 50% higher than the
largest numbers I've ever heard I am curious as to its source. Did
the GAO "skip" great big chunks of the cost?


Hint: What does the "I" in ISS stand for? Why are you looking
solely at US funding for the project?

--
Andrew Smallshaw

  #10  
Old July 17th 09, 12:51 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
SkyGuide
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Posts: 46
Default ISS cost 34 TIMES what MIR cost, 40 times what Skylab cost.

...The true figure is at least $150B. *

and...

Of what? Acting as a more comfortable hotel in space for billionaires
and astronauts with nothing to do?


Rich, I'd love to have a real discussion about the ISS. I really
would. I have my questions, and yes, I have some doubts. But it's
hard to have a serious discussion when numbers are floated without any
source, and the hard work of good people is denigrated.

(You obviously have doubts about the work being done by the ISS, and
many good points that deserve examination, but please don't try to
persuade me that the astronauts have nothing to do. That
disingenuous.)

We (you and I) once had a very interesting exchange in this group on
Mars exploration - something I know a bit more about compared to human
spaceflight. Even though other folks posted that I was wasting my
time answering you, I chose to continue, 'cause you were playing
straight with me, and I greatly enjoyed our conversation.

Can we do that here? I'd like to be better able to defend my position
when I do have the rare occasion to chat (face-to-face) with folks who
are in a decision-making capacity at NASA.

Or, we can just throw out extreme talking points, lacking any merit,
and just chalk this up to a rant. I know that formula works on cable
news, and it's easier to rant than to carefully examine the facts, but
I'd love something better (if we can pull it off).

Thanks! ~Michael
 




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