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A Second Pass over the Herschel 400



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 1st 03, 05:44 PM
Tony Flanders
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Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

About four years ago, I observed the last of the Herschel 400
with my 7" Dob. After completing the project, I rewarded myself
by ordering a 12.5" scope, and I expect eventually to observe
all of the Herschel 400 with that scope as well.

The difference between the two sets of observations is striking.
The first time around, I was intensely goal-oriented, eager to
complete the entire list, which I did in a little over a year.
This time, I have been at the job for over three years, with
no end yet in sight.

The difference is partly due to circumstances; my 7" Dob was
mobile, so that I used it in city, suburbs, and country,
whereas my 12.5" Dob lives in the country, where I can only
get to it on weekends and during vacations. Also, in both
cases, I enhanced the observing list with other objects;
the first time around I observed the union of the Messier
list, the Herschel 400, and the RASC 110. This time, I am
observing all of those, plus the Caldwell list and Steve
Gottlieb's list of the best IC objects -- both filtered with
respect to my latitude.

But the biggest difference is attitude. The first time around,
finishing the list was a goal. This time, the observing list
is primarily an aid or accessory. Unlike some people, I find
that if I go out to observe without an agenda, I end up frittering
my time away, and enjoying myself less than I might. The Herschel
400 enhances my pleasure by providing a convenient answer to the
question "what should I observe next?", but I am in no hurry at
all to finish it.

Yesterday, I was editing and colating my observing notes from
the night before, and I was particularly struck by how much
I have grown as an observer, and by how much more I can see
with a 12.5" scope than I could with a 7" scope. It is true
that the Herschel 400 can all be seen with a fairly small
scope -- many of them quite easily -- but it does not follow
that a small scope is sufficient to show them all to full
advantage.

Here, for instance, are comparative notes for two rather
interesting objects: the planetary nebula NGC 7008 and the
open cluster NGC 7044. In the latter case, it seems obvious
that the observation with the 7" scope was erroneous. There
is no way that I can reconcile what I recorded with reality;
I must have observed some nearby asterism instead.

NGC 7008:
09/17/98 7" Dob:
Truly large oval about 1', very faint for planetary nebula,
just to side of faint companion.
08/30/03 12.5" Dob:
Exotic planetary nebula off 2 moderately bright stars, the
brighter of those just off side of nebula, slightly enhanced
by UHC filter. Elliptical, elongated 15 degrees counterclockwise
to line between stars, 1.2' x 0.8', striking bright blob at
far end of ellipse from stars about 0.2' around, hint of
symmetric concentration on near end of ellipse but much fainter,
central star readily visible, with hint of a second star inside.

NGC 7044:
09/17/98 7" Dob:
Ill defined cluster at 32X. At 105X, 9 stars in 3' triangle,
no sense of other stars not seen.
08/30/03 12.5" Dob:
Surprising open cluster showing as a subtle bright patch at
151X with no stars visible directly but many peering through
with averted vision, at least a dozen but impossible to count.
About 3' and slightly elliptical, assuming that tail of much
brighter stars is not part of the true cluster. Presumably
quite rich to show as a nebulous patch, with even the stars
seen with averted vision just the tip of the iceberg. A
pleasure to see an open cluster like this with such a big
scope, reminiscent of M37 or M11 seen through a very small
scope.

How gratifying to be seeing the same old objects, yet still be
seeing so many new things!

- Tony Flanders
  #2  
Old September 2nd 03, 03:34 PM
Stephen Paul
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Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

"Tony Flanders" wrote in message
...
Unlike some people, I find
that if I go out to observe without an agenda, I end up frittering
my time away, and enjoying myself less than I might.


Not to turn this into yet another GT/Anti-GT thread, but you raise an
interesting point. I too find that observing lists make the night more
enjoyable. As Shawn use to so often claim [paraphrased], "Most DSO's look
like crap, so the hunt is a lot of the joy of astronomy". In my case, I find
having a list and GoTo or DSC's makes the night a _lot_ more fun. At least
from the standpoint of viewing as many "crappy" looking objects as possible
in a single session.

Using just the Dob and SA2000 with a list is also enjoyable, but I prefer
using a computer aided scope to do the survey work, and then the Dob to
learn to find the good stuff, without whiz-bang aids. That way, on nights
without a plan (which is most nights), at public outings, or remote sites, I
can visit my repertoire of favorite objects without needing anything but
SA2000, a red light and memory.

Nights I like to to relax, take in the eye candy and listen smooth jazz.
Days are reserved for metal, hard labor and stress (and I like that too). In
both cases, there are goals, and that makes all the difference to a guy like
me. I can be a real slug, but only for a (very) limited time, then I have
_got_ to do something. Life is too short to just sit idle and let others
have all the fun.

:-)

--
-Stephen Paul


  #3  
Old September 2nd 03, 11:20 PM
J. Jason Fry
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Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

Ritesh,
What kind of new 14.5" scope are you getting? I, too, have an Orion XT8
that performs very well (and which I intend on keeping), but I have a 16"
Custom Truss Tube Dob from NightSky Scopes on order. I hope to have it in
March.

Jason

"Axel" wrote in message
om...
How gratifying to be seeing the same old objects, yet still be
seeing so many new things!


Interesting post and quite a stark contrast in the descriptions. I'm
hoping for a similar quantum leap in detail going from my 8" to a
14.5" shortly. I could never get motivated to do the Herschel 400
because I dismissed most of the galaxies as being likely to be
uninteresting with an 8" scope. I'm sure the task will be much more
enjoyable with the new scope!

Ritesh





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  #5  
Old September 3rd 03, 02:01 AM
Axel
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Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

What kind of new 14.5" scope are you getting? I, too, have an Orion XT8
that performs very well (and which I intend on keeping), but I have a 16"
Custom Truss Tube Dob from NightSky Scopes on order. I hope to have it in
March.

Jason


Hi Jason, mine's also a custom truss from NightSky Scopes! Jim was
somewhat reluctant to make it the longer f/5.4 focal ratio I wanted,
but he agreed to do it for a bit extra. R.F. Royce made the primary
for me. I placed the order for the structure back in March or
thereabouts, so it should be nearly done! I think I'll just drive
over to Louisiana and pick it up personally. I'll be sure to post
details on its mechanics, as yours will no doubt be very similar.

I'm not sure if I'll hang on to the 8" tube Dob. The somewhat better
portability isn't much of an advantage for me because I can't view
from my condo, so I have to pack it all in the truck and drive
somewhere anyway.

What's custom on your 16"?

Ritesh
  #6  
Old September 3rd 03, 02:07 AM
Mike Fitterman
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Posts: n/a
Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

Stephen,

If you remember, you and I were trying to find M83 from our nice Northern
Latitude here, where it's low in the sky and typically in a lot of light
pollution. We never would have found it without GT although we did try. It
was *barely* visible even after the GT. It would have been a near
impossible find without being sure of the spot.

Mike.


"Stephen Paul" wrote in message
...
"Tony Flanders" wrote in message
...
Unlike some people, I find
that if I go out to observe without an agenda, I end up frittering
my time away, and enjoying myself less than I might.


Not to turn this into yet another GT/Anti-GT thread, but you raise an
interesting point. I too find that observing lists make the night more
enjoyable. As Shawn use to so often claim [paraphrased], "Most DSO's look
like crap, so the hunt is a lot of the joy of astronomy". In my case, I

find
having a list and GoTo or DSC's makes the night a _lot_ more fun. At least
from the standpoint of viewing as many "crappy" looking objects as

possible
in a single session.

Using just the Dob and SA2000 with a list is also enjoyable, but I prefer
using a computer aided scope to do the survey work, and then the Dob to
learn to find the good stuff, without whiz-bang aids. That way, on nights
without a plan (which is most nights), at public outings, or remote sites,

I
can visit my repertoire of favorite objects without needing anything but
SA2000, a red light and memory.

Nights I like to to relax, take in the eye candy and listen smooth jazz.
Days are reserved for metal, hard labor and stress (and I like that too).

In
both cases, there are goals, and that makes all the difference to a guy

like
me. I can be a real slug, but only for a (very) limited time, then I have
_got_ to do something. Life is too short to just sit idle and let others
have all the fun.

:-)

--
-Stephen Paul




  #7  
Old September 4th 03, 07:25 PM
Stephen Paul
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Posts: n/a
Default A Second Pass over the Herschel 400

"Tony Flanders" wrote in message
. ..

When in doubt in difficult terrain, reversing your route is almost
always the right decision. Wasting 45 minutes going up and down
a wrong trail is as nothing compared to what might have happened
if you had left the streambed. This is a classic example where
technology is *not* a substitute for old-fashioned skills and
common sense. Trusting the GPS might well have killed you.


Well, we were teens at the time and old fashioned skill and common sense
eluded us. :-)

That said, I believe the GPS could have really helped us. Especially since
we _did_ leave the streambed and became hopelessly lost, with no choice as
late afternoon approached evening, but to go upward. And, as usual, it was
raining.

The moral of that experience was to not take the road less traveled without
either, A) more experience, or B) a GPS lock on your position of origin. We
had decided at the last minute to not head straight up to the A-Trail, but
rather to take a left hand turn at the base and go around and up. If we had
the GPS, we could have, and would have, gone back after getting lost. (We
didn't even have a compass, just a topo map). So, by the time we had
realized we were in real trouble, going upward was the most sensible
solution.

OTOH, we saw a part of the mountain that others rarely do. A beautiful
green meadow area, making a corridor through densely populated forest, was
the most memorable. But soon it seemed more like marsh and the water got
waist deep. We had to hold the trees along the edge to traverse our way
across while remaining out of the water. One tree in particular was a little
weak at the roots and when I grabbed hold to swing around, it let go.
Thankfully Bruce was there to pull the tree off and help me back on my feet.
I was completely submerged, and would have drown.

In case you missed it, we had less in the way of experience, than we had in
exuberance and energy.

Ever since, I've not been a big fan of traveling without reliable technology
or skill.

 




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