A really great essay by Keith Cowing

In article ,
Eric Chomko wrote:
So his commitment to go to the moon given to a joint session of Congress
back in 61 was just talk? No, no president has EVER made a commitment like
JFK did to space.

Sure they have. Reagan committed NASA to putting a space station up
within a decade; a decade later, the station was still expensive
viewgraphs -- not a single piece of flight hardware had been built.
Bush Sr. declared for both the Moon and Mars, and got neither.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

Eric Chomko wrote:
Rand Simberg ) wrote:
: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:31:40 +0000 (UTC)

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
: would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
: he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period. Perhaps you are one of those righties that likes
reassassinating JFK at every turn?

I guess you missed the airing of the taped conversations where Kennedy
expressed his views about the space program.

(Eric Chomko) wrote in
:

Rand Simberg ) wrote:

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that
: things would have gone any differently, since it's now historical
: record that he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period.

Afraid not. The JFK Library released a tape of a meeting between JFK and
NASA administrator James Webb that reveals that the president cared about
the moon race *only* as a means of beating the Soviets, and was not
interested in space in general:

http://www.jfklibrary.org/newsletter...002_14-15.html

"Everything that we do should be tied into getting on to the moon ahead of
the Russians. We ought to get it really clear that the policy ought to be
that this is the top priority program of the agency and one... of the top
priorities of the United States government. Otherwise we shouldn't be
spending this kind of money, because I am not that interested in space."

Perhaps you are one of those righties that likes
reassassinating JFK at every turn?

Perhaps you are one of those lefties that has put JFK on such a tall
pedestal that you are blind to his flaws?

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
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(Henry Spencer) wrote in
:

In article ,
Eric Chomko wrote:
So his commitment to go to the moon given to a joint session of
Congress back in 61 was just talk? No, no president has EVER made a
commitment like JFK did to space.

Sure they have. Reagan committed NASA to putting a space station up
within a decade; a decade later, the station was still expensive
viewgraphs -- not a single piece of flight hardware had been built.
Bush Sr. declared for both the Moon and Mars, and got neither.

You call that commitment? If they were *really* committed, they would have
gotten assassinated so that the programs would have become the legacies of
martyred leaders...

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:51:21 +0000 (UTC),
(Eric Chomko) wrote:

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
: would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
: he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period.

LBJ gives him a run for his money (and may be more responsible for
JFK's space support than JFK was). So does Reagan.

By far the least supportive Presidents are two Democrats... Carter and
Clinton.

Nixon and Bush Sr. are middle of the road.

Brian

(Henry Spencer) wrote in :

In article ,
Eric Chomko wrote:
: ...When the assassination did start to fade from immediate memory,
: NASA started to have budget problems and started to lose its more
: ambitious programs.

When exactly was that?
I think LBJ being a Texan and Houston being the seat of mission control
made the space program safe under his presidency as well.

Unfortunately, not so. NASA's budget, and in particular its long-term
follow-ons to existing programs, suffered badly in the summer of 1967.
In spring 1967, NASA selected a second batch of scientist-astronauts; in
fall 1967, when they reported for duty, the first thing they heard was
Deke Slayton telling them he didn't have any missions for them to fly.

The fall was steep, too. By the time LBJ left office in 1969, NASA's budget
had dropped 36% from its 1966 peak, and 12% since JFK's assassination.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

On 19 Nov 2003 02:57:37 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Jorge R.
Frank" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

(Henry Spencer) wrote in
:

In article ,
Eric Chomko wrote:
So his commitment to go to the moon given to a joint session of
Congress back in 61 was just talk? No, no president has EVER made a
commitment like JFK did to space.

Sure they have. Reagan committed NASA to putting a space station up
within a decade; a decade later, the station was still expensive
viewgraphs -- not a single piece of flight hardware had been built.
Bush Sr. declared for both the Moon and Mars, and got neither.

You call that commitment? If they were *really* committed, they would have
gotten assassinated so that the programs would have become the legacies of
martyred leaders...

Yup. It's like ham and eggs. The hen was involved, but hog was
*committed*.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:51:21 +0000 (UTC), in a place far, far away,
(Eric Chomko) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

: What about the speculation of actually going to the moon with the
: Russians? JFk was alleged to have actually suggested that. I think the
: Apollo-Soyuz in 75 would have occurred earlier had JFK lived. But that is
: my speculation.

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
: would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
: he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period. Perhaps you are one of those righties that likes
reassassinating JFK at every turn?

As I said, it's historical record that he didn't give a damn about
space. Go educate yourself.

Your politics are PREDICTABLE!

laughing

But yours aren't? At least mine are informed.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:01:04 -0600, in a place far, far away, Brian
Thorn made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:51:21 +0000 (UTC),
(Eric Chomko) wrote:

: Yes, speculation is all it is. Had Kennedy lived, I doubt that things
: would have gone any differently, since it's now historical record that
: he didn't give a damn about space.

Total partisan BS! JFK took a more active role in space than any
Republican president and probably more so than any other president
period.

LBJ gives him a run for his money (and may be more responsible for
JFK's space support than JFK was). So does Reagan.

By far the least supportive Presidents are two Democrats... Carter and
Clinton.

And if Mondale had won, he'd have probably disbanded NASA, if he
could.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

Henry Spencer ) wrote:
: In article ,
: Eric Chomko wrote:
: : ...When the assassination did start to fade from immediate memory,
: : NASA started to have budget problems and started to lose its more
: : ambitious programs.
:
: When exactly was that?
: I think LBJ being a Texan and Houston being the seat of mission control
: made the space program safe under his presidency as well.

: Unfortunately, not so. NASA's budget, and in particular its long-term
: follow-ons to existing programs, suffered badly in the summer of 1967.

I think tiy are referring to fallout after the Apollo 1 debacle. According
to the TV program about mission control, "Failure is not an Option", NASA
went through soul searching as it does after every space related failure.
But it appears that there was enough of the budget to actually have Apollo
last for 5 more years.

: In spring 1967, NASA selected a second batch of scientist-astronauts; in
: fall 1967, when they reported for duty, the first thing they heard was
: Deke Slayton telling them he didn't have any missions for them to fly.

Yet a year later we had Apollo 8 and then the moon landing and then 4 more
moon landings. Go figure!

: There had been strong hints of trouble developing a year or so earlier,
: but summer 1967 was when it got bad.

But what about the Apollo program?

: LBJ was preoccupied with his pet war by that time. He expressed regrets
: about the NASA budget cuts, but didn't put any political capital into
: trying to stop them.

I think you are confused about post Apollo pre Skylab days. At THAT time
NASA suffered cuts.

Eric


: --
: MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
: pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |