NTRS offline due to politics

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:08:47 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 7:05 PM, David Spain wrote:
On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!


Of course you could be a Federal employee or contractor with access, but
then to reveal any of the previously public content to me under the
current circumstances could be considered an illegal act.

Wonderful times we're living in eh?

Friend, please take a breath. Really, are you ready to slit your
wrists and just say goodbye at this point? Get a grip. Let the idiot
politicians on both sides bounce the ball back and forth a bit before
deciding to commit Hara-Kiri. In a month you may have a point, but
right now? Are you really that naive regarding our politicians and
appointed officials?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:05:19 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!

On the site I reference docs I long ago switched to hosting copies.
Likewise I gave up relying on NTRS docs I use for work. Same for AIAA
docs. Sorry, neither the 'net or cloud is really available all the
time. Local storage is cheap these days.Just how I manage my work
needs. If you choose to rely on the others then you may live/die by
them.

On 3/21/2013 7:33 PM, me wrote:
In a month you may have a point, but
right now? Are you really that naive regarding our politicians and
appointed officials?

There is a time value to information. A month could be fatal if say, I'm
in the final stages of prepping a PHD dissertation and oops! one of my
references just went away right before I went to archive it! And wow,
just discovered my university technical library was using on-line
references as well and it will take 6 weeks or more to get it via US mail.

If you were to presume that none of the information at NTRS is vital to
me or my job (right now, today) you'd be correct. But I can't presume to
speak for everyone.

Given the vastness of the NTRS archives we'll be lucky to see its return
in only a month. And I might add, in what part of NASA's sequestered
budget has this newly mandated review been funded? And even if there is
money there, what will be the criteria used to conduct a review?
"Sensitive" is somewhat vague wouldn't you say?

What we're facing here is an open-ended situation. No-one at NASA has
guaranteed when NTRS will return. Are you?

The fact that I'm upset about it now, rather than 3 months from now,
when nothing has changed, just means that maybe I can anticipate the
speed at which government moves. I can (have an ill-founded) hope I'm
wrong. Or I can make noise now. Squeaky wheel principle. Which do you
think works better?

Dave

Your value to us as a loyal customer is important to us.
Please hold the line and a customer service representative
will be with you shortly....

Oh wait, my bad, here's the correct wording...

"Until further notice,
the NTRS system will be unavailable for public access.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and anticipate
that this site will return to service in the near future."

http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/

"me" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:08:47 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 7:05 PM, David Spain wrote:
On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!


Of course you could be a Federal employee or contractor with access, but
then to reveal any of the previously public content to me under the
current circumstances could be considered an illegal act.

Wonderful times we're living in eh?

Friend, please take a breath. Really, are you ready to slit your
wrists and just say goodbye at this point? Get a grip. Let the idiot
politicians on both sides bounce the ball back and forth a bit before
deciding to commit Hara-Kiri. In a month you may have a point, but
right now? Are you really that naive regarding our politicians and
appointed officials?

Umm, just the opposite. I think it's you being quite naïve.

These are the politicians that have given us things like the TSA, the
PATRIOT ACT and more.

These sort of things rarely have a way of getting "better" unless people
squawk.





--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

"me" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:05:19 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!

On the site I reference docs I long ago switched to hosting copies.
Likewise I gave up relying on NTRS docs I use for work. Same for AIAA
docs. Sorry, neither the 'net or cloud is really available all the
time. Local storage is cheap these days.Just how I manage my work
needs. If you choose to rely on the others then you may live/die by
them.

Wow, I'm impressed that you've already downloaded every document you'll ever
need.

For me, I know that often I'll start down a path of something I know and
then go off on a tangent and want to learn more. Which means going on-line
or buying a book. I mean I have a decent library (both dead-tree and
on-line) but I have hardly downloaded every document I'll ever need.

So I congratulate you on your foresight.





--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:10:16 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

mation. A month could be fatal if say, I'm
in the final stages of prepping a PHD dissertation and oops! one of my
references just went away right before I went to archive it! And wow,
just discovered my university technical library was using on-line
references as well and it will take 6 weeks or more to get it via US mail.

Ok, I now feel you pain. However, can't your library deal with
electronic sources other than a FREE NTRS? Note even in electronic
subscriptions there can be a loss of access. PRs don't get processed,
there are foul-ups, etc. I recently lost access to list of major
aerospace journals for three months because of an issue with PRs. It's
the world. I did my masters back in the early 80s. I had copies of my
thesis at work, at home and in my car. I've seen folks at work cry
because their work wasn't on a backup that was functional. Don't rely
on anyone but yourself for that you deem really needed.


If you were to presume that none of the information at NTRS is vital to
me or my job (right now, today) you'd be correct. But I can't presume to
speak for everyone.

It's not a guaranteed recourse, anyone would be naive to rely on it in
this fashion. I'm sorry if that hurts, but as I said it is not a
guaranteed recourse by their own statement.


Given the vastness of the NTRS archives we'll be lucky to see its return
in only a month. And I might add, in what part of NASA's sequestered
budget has this newly mandated review been funded? And even if there is
money there, what will be the criteria used to conduct a review?
"Sensitive" is somewhat vague wouldn't you say?

What we're facing here is an open-ended situation. No-one at NASA has
guaranteed when NTRS will return. Are you?

No and they won't. For you to expect this is naive.

The fact that I'm upset about it now, rather than 3 months from now,
when nothing has changed, just means that maybe I can anticipate the
speed at which government moves. I can (have an ill-founded) hope I'm
wrong. Or I can make noise now. Squeaky wheel principle. Which do you
think works better?

In this case , no offense, but imo you have absolutely zero input to
this happening., as does Dwayne Day. The politicos will do their "due
diligence" and it will be done. If you really care to get spun up on
something I would choose the budget myself. Are you sure NTRS funding
is secure?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:32:23 -0400, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:


"me" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:08:47 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 7:05 PM, David Spain wrote:
On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!


Of course you could be a Federal employee or contractor with access, but
then to reveal any of the previously public content to me under the
current circumstances could be considered an illegal act.

Wonderful times we're living in eh?

Friend, please take a breath. Really, are you ready to slit your
wrists and just say goodbye at this point? Get a grip. Let the idiot
politicians on both sides bounce the ball back and forth a bit before
deciding to commit Hara-Kiri. In a month you may have a point, but
right now? Are you really that naive regarding our politicians and
appointed officials?

Umm, just the opposite. I think it's you being quite naïve.

These are the politicians that have given us things like the TSA, the
PATRIOT ACT and more.

These sort of things rarely have a way of getting "better" unless people
squawk.

Well then start squawking about the high level things like the budget
impasse. How do you think this will effect the folks who might
actually be responsible for now certifying all these docs are ok?

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:35:11 -0400, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:

"me" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:05:19 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 6:18 PM, me wrote:
[...snip...]
Go back to when the NACA report server was moved into
NTRS. That changed the urls of how many documents?

I don't know, I can't tell you because I can't find those NACA reports
anymore! And more to the point, if you haven't archived them, neither
can you!

On the site I reference docs I long ago switched to hosting copies.
Likewise I gave up relying on NTRS docs I use for work. Same for AIAA
docs. Sorry, neither the 'net or cloud is really available all the
time. Local storage is cheap these days.Just how I manage my work
needs. If you choose to rely on the others then you may live/die by
them.

Wow, I'm impressed that you've already downloaded every document you'll ever
need.

For me, I know that often I'll start down a path of something I know and
then go off on a tangent and want to learn more. Which means going on-line
or buying a book. I mean I have a decent library (both dead-tree and
on-line) but I have hardly downloaded every document I'll ever need.

Don't put words in my mouth. When you find a valuable reference, be
prudent and keep a local copy. That's all I'm saying. Servers go down,
subscriptions expire, etc.

It's not even 48 hours , stop the doomsday predictions for now. Anyone
remember what happened with web sites after 9-11? Trivial compared to
this.

Well the wording is different today. No time-frame given however.
If you are one of the NASA folks busy on this my heartfelt thanks and a
word of advice. Create an audit log so you won't have to do this again....

"The NASA technical reports server will be unavailable for public access
while the agency conducts a review of the site's content to ensure that
it does not contain technical information that is subject to U.S. export
control laws and regulations and that the appropriate reviews were
performed. The site will return to service when the review is complete.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause."

http://www.ntrs.nasa.gov/

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:10:16 -0400, David Spain
wrote:

On 3/21/2013 7:33 PM, me wrote:
In a month you may have a point, but
right now? Are you really that naive regarding our politicians and
appointed officials?

There is a time value to information. A month could be fatal if say, I'm
in the final stages of prepping a PHD dissertation and oops! one of my
references just went away right before I went to archive it! And wow,
just discovered my university technical library was using on-line
references as well and it will take 6 weeks or more to get it via US mail.

Two other possible avenues. Search google and see if it has been
cached there. Anyone at the school a NASA of other Federal agency
contractor or grantee? They can register for access to NASD,
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/nasa-users/#nasd