Absconding ISS to Venus L2 (VL2), whatever the radiation

Here's something other than hot rocks to speak of;

Besides the fact that so many testy opponents are intentionally
tossing flak (I'm assuming their not all idiots, just functioning as
loyal Borgs of their NASA/NSA/DoD collective), they're continually
ignoring some very fundamental laws of physics, laws pertaining to
*pressure* that shifts the vapor point of just about everything
(including blood) and otherwise greatly reduces dependency upon O2.

In spite of all that warm and fuzzy flak I'm taking, here is something
more of interest, for those actually intent upon reaching for the
Venus surface may be in for yet another surprise. This knowledge could
even improve upon our chances of making it on other planets that are
not quite like Earth.

I've located something of further interest for the task of converting
relatively small amounts of H2O into some rather enormous H2, like a
ratio of 25,000:1

As a result, the issues of obtaining H2 from heat and of a little
energy are further improved for our focusing upon various "can do"
considerations for planets such as Venus, having shifted the balance
in favor of life far more than I'd anticipated. The following most
recent page offers those links and of a tad bit more on the
opportunities that are at hand.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/can-do.htm

David Grinspoon seems to be another tough nut to crack, although at
least he's not being the absolute Borg of the pro-NASA collective, by
his suggesting things about Venus that are of somewhat more recent
history and, even though he's not willing to admit, his research and
subsequent publications are more favorable toward the possibility of
other life than not. Even Andrew Yee has offered numerous commentaries
of how life finds a way of surviving, even if that's in spite of our
misconceptions, or arrogance as I like to refer to it.

Essentially there is significant other life on Venus, or at least
there was such life as of 14+ years ago. Worst case scenario is that
we're seeing the remains of what used to be, though why leave town
simply because it's getting somewhat toasty hot, when you've got
seasons worth of cooler nighttime as well as unlimited energy in just
the atmospheric pressure differential alone, especially when that
differential is comprised of such terrifically dense CO2 that's
keeping the planets' mega tonnes of H2O aloft, as in buoyant in them
there relatively cool nighttime clouds.

BTW; thanks for keeping this topic open.

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS 1-253-8576061 http://guthvenus.tripod.com
alternate URL: http://www.geocities.com/bradguth

One of my keen interest is still with regard to learning more about
what sort of radiation there is at Earth L4/L5, as I've got a fairly
good idea as to what the relatively cool zone or semi-protected pocket
at Earth L2 has to offer. In further knowing what's at Earth L4/L5,
this knowledge would enable some further understanding as to what to
expect once a mission is fully solar exposed, whereas the solar
minimum (not maximum) is by far introducing the greater risk from
creating secondary radiation. Any pointers or leads as to the
radiation dosage at L4/L5 will be looked into, subsequently applied
into a couple of ongoing research papers (along with your name as
credit for this and of whatever other you'd like to contribute).

As for regarding the planet surface radiation, such as of Mars; this
is some fairly old and thereby outdated info, where the more recent
radiation exposure estimates have been scaled considerably higher,
although this example will offer some raw insight into what's what
with regard to shielding from cosmic rays in general.

From: Ken Myrtle )
Subject: Cosmic Rays, Van Allen Belt, and Radiation Shielding

1/ free space (given as represent a full solar exposure)
2/ surface without atmosphere (1/2 of free space value of sunset to
sunrise)
3/ surface with .007 bar CO2
4/ surface with .007 bar CO2 plus 10 gm/cm^2 aluminum wall
5/ surface with .007 bar CO2 plus 10 gm/cm^2 aluminum wall
plus 50 gm/cm^2 CO2 for radiation coming from more than
45 deg above the horizon (a CO2 tank on the roof).

Dosage to Blood forming organs (calculated at a depth of 5 cm)
| Cosmic Rays REM/yr | SPE
Case | solar min | solar max | REM
1 | 65.6 | 25.9 | 391.5
2 | 32.8 | 13.0 | 195.8
3 | 15.5 | 8.3 | 4.0
4 | 14.4 | 8.0 | 1.9
5 | 13.3 | 7.8 | 0.7


The above research; indicating that the mere 0.007 bar worth of the
Mars CO2 atmosphere seems to cut the influx of cosmic radiation
roughly in half, while cutting the SPE by a good factor of nearly 50,
though as for the prospect of adding an increase in the CO2 density
within a tight space (such as utilizing a surrounding tank of
compressed CO2 @50 g/cm2) manages not more than another 8% reduction
in relation to solar minimum influx.

Obviously the secondary radiation created mostly by the 10 g/cm2 of
aluminum is not being significantly cut by the liquified CO2, whereas
the Solar Particle Event (SPE) dosage is cut by more than half.

Unlike Mars, Venus seems to be surrounded by not only nearly 15,000
times greater density (especially at night) but, it's atmosphere
extends at least a hundred fold further out, thus permitting
sufficient separation or distance for not only blocking the primary
cosmic radiation but for also the secondary radiation to expend it's
energy as it's attempting to get through all that CO2 as well as H2SO4
(30% sulfuric acid) worth of cloud muck. Thus I'm thinking, that the
Venus daytime is not actually so much a cosmic radiation endurance
factor as is the UV consideration, where the ability of near UV and of
sufficient portions of the UV a/b/c spectrums to penetrate those
clouds is considerable, whereas the CO2 aspects are essentially clear
as a bell for whatever is making it through to reaching the surface.

If it were necessary to further reduce secondary radiation by anything
other, I've been informed that hydrogen (H2) is just the ticket. This
indicates that having a thermal barrier of perhaps those H2 filled
micro-spheres, as I've mentioned for accommodating an R-256 barrier of
thermal conduction insulation, within this formula/package the H2
could in fact provide not only the desired thermal isolation but
accommodate the best job of shielding from secondary radiation affects
caused by whatever is your primary shield density. Normally H2 is not
considered such a great thermal insulator, though placing the H2
(preferably under vacuum) within micro-spheres is going to represent
quite another issue, where R-256 might be obtained within as little as
25 mm.

Mars is already providing a near vacuum, whereas Venus is not, though
as for pulling a vacuum on Venus is not such a complicated task and,
as for hot H2 is even better. So, what I'm suggesting is that an
actual surface expedition to Venus is certainly not out of the
question, especially selecting a landing site that's within their
extended season of nighttime. Though a VL2 stationed ISS would more
than suffice as far as I'm concerned, still a spendy proposition but
nowhere as costly nor as risky as for doing anything as stupid as
actually setting foot on Venus. Besides, we might not be welcome.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/vl2-radiation.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS

Bad Astronomy Bulletin Board http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB
Discuss Bad Astronomy here!

That's sort of hard to do that if "You have been banned from this
forum"

Apparently "GUTH Venus has become way too hot for even Bad Astronomy".
However, this is what I first posted that obviously blew their fuse;

Subject/title: "Venus supports other life NOT as we know it"

In spite of my dyslexia and inabilities to tollerate those solely
intent upon destroying whatever's not there idea; first of all, this
topic is not of any mere idea, it's not a conjecture based upon
another black hole of nothingness, but of what can be seen unless
you're restricted to braille format, as there's been life NOT as we
know it and perhaps (most likely) surviving on Venus and, I sincerely
believe we (that's you and I) can sufficiently prove that point, at
least a whole lot better off than you or I can prove we've been to and
walked on the moon.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-187.htm



Perhaps it had a little something to do with my space radiation page
that's not exactly favorable for supporting those Apollo missions:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm

or regarding the Boeing/TRW ABL laser cannon thing, taking practice
shots at a certain shuttle:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/boeing/trw.htm

or of what other has been recently added and improved that's stashed
away on my good old update page:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-187.htm

OK, instead of 'Absconding ISS to Venus L2 (VL2), whatever the
radiation'

How about promoting a replacement for TRACE?

I realize that I've been pushing several of these 'do not push' buttons,
along with my lose cannon method of getting folks thinking along the
lines of what's most important about the likes of Venus, and/or even as
per considering upon the prospects of our getting a TRACE-II established
at VL2.

Perhaps you know of others capable of engineering the relocation of ISS
to the ME-L1 zone, or of accomplishing alternatives of interplanetary
communications efforts, or of getting another new and improved
Magellan-II mission off to Venus (oops, ESA/Russia seem to be doing just
that), even the likes of accomplishing a new and improved TRACE-II as
station-keeping at Venus-L2 is another perfectly good alternative that
wouldn't cost 1% of doing Mars in person.

Ideally this interplanetary communications task should transpire from a
space platform like ISS, or as better from a stationary ME-L1
satellite/platform if not the ultimate being a TRACE-II that's offering
a station-keeping platform at VL2, and otherwise most efficiently as for
being technically doable from the lunar surface would certainly provide
a stable platform having way more than a sufficient opportunity as to
converting the 1.4 kw/m2 into accommodating a fairly decent laser
cannon, where as little as one m2 of PV cells should be sufficient for
driving a binary pulsed laser energy output of 10% duty cycle (100 ms
worth of CW laser output per second) that's offering at least 1 kw worth
of those 425 nm photons. Of course, if that's too efficient and too
focused, we could set up 100 m2 worth of those same PV cells along with
deploying a fairly massive microwave transmitter site upon the moon
that's good for about the same beam energy that's spread over 1°, thus
creating only a fraction of the energy/m2 arriving into their seasonal
nighttime environment of Venus where there's nearly zero chance in hell
that any form of life would ever realize we've been knocking on their
door.

I certainly would have liked having seen a TRACE-II established at Venus
L2. At least that way all sorts of perfectly good information can be
efficiently obtained and relayed to/from whatever interactive surface
instruments, possibly via laser transceiving (thus a quantum packet
stream of 1e12 bps becomes doable) and then by way of our having to use
the traditional inefficient microwave methods of sharing such data
to/from Earth. Of course the TRACE-II team would be multi-tasking on
behalf of continuing their mission of researching of our sun, except for
having a better perspective than ever possible by the original TRACE
instrument that's somewhat outdated and about to go off-line due to old
age.

Regards, Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm


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TRACE -- TRACE-II
http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/
http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/POD/T...doverview.html

http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/Scien...ce_images.html

http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/Scien.../mov_page.html

http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/Scien.../tri980616.jpg

http://vestige.lmsal.com/TRACE/Scien...171_980521.jpg

With some reading and whatever brief look-see, you can soon discover and
hopefully realize as to how much optical data and thereby scientific
bang for the almighty buck/euro that team TRACE has been delivering from
such a relatively small package. Just think of TRACE-II as being ten
fold improved in CCD and perhaps double the optics, thus somewhat larger
and easily outfitted with a few relatively small and somewhat even more
so insignificant power consuming laser communications cannons.

With the 2 fold improvement in optical magnification, plus a ten fold
improvement in CCD density (that's a combined 20 fold improvement in raw
pixel resolution power), and being situated roughly 25% closer to the
sun should become rather impressive, and still likely not 10% the cost
of doing another Mars orbiting mission, and perhaps 1% the cost of doing
the likes of Saturn/Titan.

Getting the likes of TRACE-II into the VL2 sweet spot might be a little
tricky, a bit retro-thrust intensive and requiring a good deal more of
those xenon/ION engines in order to afford TRACE-II the necessary option
of moving itself somewhat in and out of the exact VL2 spot.

Actually, by now there should be a good 4 fold optical improvement plus
the 10 fold enhanced CCD, thus a 40 fold overall improvement along with
all of those absolutely super terrific spectrum selective band-pass
filters.

Thus whatever ESA/Russia can manage, you'd have to think that our crack
NASA wizards should be capable of pulling off a TRACE-II in nothing
flat.

Regards, Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm


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