#171
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How cool is VL2
In sci.physics, Art Deco
wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:15:47 -0600 : The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:12:26 -0600 : Brad Guth wrote: plus that other one of their not having to deal with that pesky gamma and Xray dosage of a moon How does the Moon generate these high-energy photons, Brad? EGRET in fact shows that gamma ray radiation on the Moon is higher than the Sun's. http://www.aas.org/publications/baas...s/S025002.html http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970210.html Granted, this doesn't answer how, but it might answer what. It's not clear to me how many sieverts or grays this would be. That's pretty interesting. Still it doesn't support Guth's assertion that humans would be DOA as soon as they got anywhere near the Moon. Also, the return of 36 humans from lunar orbit in good health seals the issue. Hmm...was it that many? I count 21 but don't know how many missions played "sling around the moon" before Apollo 11. But you're right; this doesn't come close to supporting BG's assertion. -- #191, New Technology? Not There. No Thanks. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#172
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How cool is VL2
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote: Or perhaps it's something else. I'd have to look. It's interesting either way, but apparently not lethal; Buzz Aldrin after all survived long enough to punch someone in the nose after said someone asked a stupid question, many years later. ;-) My hero! -- Got mail? I did ;-) Three and counting. Got proof? Not yet, still waiting. |
#173
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How cool is VL2
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:15:47 -0600 : The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:12:26 -0600 : Brad Guth wrote: plus that other one of their not having to deal with that pesky gamma and Xray dosage of a moon How does the Moon generate these high-energy photons, Brad? EGRET in fact shows that gamma ray radiation on the Moon is higher than the Sun's. http://www.aas.org/publications/baas...s/S025002.html http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970210.html Granted, this doesn't answer how, but it might answer what. It's not clear to me how many sieverts or grays this would be. That's pretty interesting. Still it doesn't support Guth's assertion that humans would be DOA as soon as they got anywhere near the Moon. Also, the return of 36 humans from lunar orbit in good health seals the issue. Hmm...was it that many? I count 21 but don't know how many missions played "sling around the moon" before Apollo 11. There were nine total Apollo missions that encountered the Moon: 8, 10-17 13 only did a sling-around, of course, but it was still within a few miles of the surface. But you're right; this doesn't come close to supporting BG's assertion. Yup. -- Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco "Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco? The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco." -- Dr. David Tholen "Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from attribution problems?" -- Dr. David Tholen |
#174
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 15, 3:11 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: In sci.physics, wrote on 15 Apr 2007 14:49:14 -0700 om: On Apr 15, 1:47 pm, The Ghost In The Machine wrote: I for one see little point in putting anything in VL2 except for the "Wow, we could go there" factor (touristing). Admittedly, one might be able to gather additional Venusian climatologic data. I'm not sure how that would help Earth avoid global warming. Your all-knowing naysayism is well noted, and fully expected. Of course. But you're going to have to write a coherent proposal to the venture capitalists at some point. What's the return on investment here? Interplanetary commerce is worth how much these days? Are we talking mere billions per year, per month, or its potential somewhere within the trillions upon trillions. It's actually a little hard to tell where the payback could ever stop going up and up. A focus upon Venus would certaily cut our ongoing and continually outgoing losses by a good hundred billion per year as is. Doesn't that account for anything? - Brad Guth |
#175
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How cool is VL2
On Apr 15, 3:11 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote: Ah, I see. So you're going to compensate for the up to 1 megaPascal precisely how? I'm not sure that composites are *that* strong. As long as you stayed within the massive submarine like composite rigid airship, mostly stuck with eating pizza and drinking ice cold beer, as such you would not need those cranial pressure equalisation passages created, otherwise a few holes drilled here and there, possibly having some of those borg like tubes going from one body place to another, and of course a very gradual build up from our wussy one bar environment to that of the nearly 100 bar worth of the Venus nighttime might take a month or so. Since most of us can't hold our breath that long, so we'd need to breath mostly the artificial likes of h2 plus just a wee bit of o2, and I'm not exactly sure how bringing along all of that pizza and ice cold beer thing is going work out. - Brad Guth |
#176
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How cool is VL2
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:41:12 -0600, Art Deco wrote:
The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:15:47 -0600 : The Ghost In The Machine wrote: In sci.physics, Art Deco wrote on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:12:26 -0600 : Brad Guth wrote: plus that other one of their not having to deal with that pesky gamma and Xray dosage of a moon How does the Moon generate these high-energy photons, Brad? EGRET in fact shows that gamma ray radiation on the Moon is higher than the Sun's. http://www.aas.org/publications/baas...s/S025002.html http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970210.html Granted, this doesn't answer how, but it might answer what. It's not clear to me how many sieverts or grays this would be. That's pretty interesting. Still it doesn't support Guth's assertion that humans would be DOA as soon as they got anywhere near the Moon. Also, the return of 36 humans from lunar orbit in good health seals the issue. Hmm...was it that many? I count 21 but don't know how many missions played "sling around the moon" before Apollo 11. There were nine total Apollo missions that encountered the Moon: 8, 10-17 13 only did a sling-around, of course, but it was still within a few miles of the surface. Did al your contact with teh Guthball affect your math skillz? IIRC, Apollo missions had a crew of three. But you're right; this doesn't come close to supporting BG's assertion. Yup. Yup. ESL! -- Bookman -The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in AFA-B Kazoo Konspirator #668 (The Neighbor of the Beast) Clue-Bat Wrangler Keeper of the Nickname Lists Despotic Kookologist of the New World Order Hammer of Thor award, October 2005 BARBARA WOODHOUSE MEMORIAL DOG-WHISTLE AWARD MIKE "MIGUEL" CRANSTON, TRAINED BY BOOKMAN COOSN-266-06-89425 "I'd love to kill you in a ring" - Bartmo gets all touchy-feely "****SPV....... So yes I am an idiot." "ASK THE NWS, YOUR TAX DOLLAR GOES TO THEM NOT TO DR.TURI." - Mr. Turi explains how to accurately predict hurricanes "Bookman is yet another Usenet fignuten, meaning naysayer and/or rusemaster of their incest cloned Third Reich. In other words, you're communicating with an intellectual if not a biological clone of Hitler." - Brad Guth tries to wax "scientific", but invokes Godwin, instead. WWFSMD? |
#178
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How cool is VL2
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote: snip If S8 is a compound, not an element, what is its chemical composition? S_8 is the most usual allotrope of elemental sulphur (No. 16 -- the official IUPAC spelling is the American "sulfur"), yellow in colour, as in the common household/garden product "flowers of sulphur". The molecule is a coronate (zig-zaggy) ring of eight sulphur atoms, and typically makes orthorhombic crystals. Conditions on Venus seem rather unsuitable for S_8 to persist. It melts at only 115°C (boiling at 445°C) under terrestrial conditions, and in the molten state the rings tend to open, forming polymeric S_n chains. I don't know exactly what effects the great atmospheric pressures would have on its behaviour, though. The melting point would be somewhat higher, because the liquid is 5-10% less dense than the solid, but I doubt it would become high enough for the substance to remain solid. FWIW sulphur's triple point is at over twice the pressure, and nearly twice the temperature, of Venus's surface. -- Odysseus |
#179
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How cool is VL2
In sci.physics,
wrote on 15 Apr 2007 18:36:35 -0700 . com: On Apr 15, 3:11 pm, The Ghost In The Machine wrote: Ah, I see. So you're going to compensate for the up to 1 megaPascal precisely how? I'm not sure that composites are *that* strong. As long as you stayed within the massive submarine like composite rigid airship, mostly stuck with eating pizza and drinking ice cold beer, as such you would not need those cranial pressure equalisation passages created, otherwise a few holes drilled here and there, possibly having some of those borg like tubes going from one body place to another, and of course a very gradual build up from our wussy one bar environment to that of the nearly 100 bar worth of the Venus nighttime might take a month or so. Since most of us can't hold our breath that long, so we'd need to breath mostly the artificial likes of h2 plus just a wee bit of o2, and I'm not exactly sure how bringing along all of that pizza and ice cold beer thing is going work out. I was referring to the dirigible envelope, not my head. In any event, a human under 9.3 MPa of pressure would be in no danger AFAICT as long as there's sufficient oxygen and no deleterious chemicals in the atmosphere. Unfortunately, neither is the case, judging from the data I've seen thus far -- though admittedly, I'm not sure how accurate the data is. Presumably the Venerian probes did some basic work regarding the atmospheric content for the short amount of time they were on the ground, and that data is now part of the Wikipedia entry for Venus. Magellan didn't quite make it that far. I don't know maximum dive depth for human divers -- 9.3 MPa corresponds to almost 1 km. Fortunately, SCUBA tanks can handle 22 MPa. Unfortunately, thescubaguide.com suggests that the maximum depth for standard equipment is only about 200 feet -- about 66 m or 660 kPa. (And that's for professional divers. The primary issue apparently is nitrogen narcosis.) One can go deeper, presumably, if one doesn't use nitrogen -- the "free diving record" is 450 feet, or a bit shy of 150m. http://www.thescubaguide.com/mailbag/qa012.aspx I have seen a show where they used high-pressure helium, mixed with oxygen. The voices sound extremely odd -- but presumably nitrogen narcosis is no longer an issue. As for breathing H2, unknown as to how that would react with our lungs. Under ideal circumstances it would be a bit like N2 -- generally inert. (However, N2 is soluble in blood; look up "the bends", a painful malady that strikes divers on occasion.) Under less favorable circumstances it may make one drunk. There are suggestions that ethyl alcohol's metabolism in the liver includes H2 as a byproduct. This H2 is metabolized as well, of course, or perhaps just passes into solution. And of course an H2/O2 mixture would be rather dangerous. Fortunately, it is also generally nonexistent, at least on Venus' surface; the biggest component thereon is carbon dioxide, the next is nitrogen, according to the standard measurements. Where you get your idea that there's hydrogen on Venus, I for one don't know. Presumably anyone stupid enough to stand on the Venusian surface, assuming the heat and the oxygen problem were solved, would succumb from the aforementioned nitrogen narcosis and some bad effects from CO2 acidic poisoning -- an issue that almost doomed the Apollo 13 mission, but was worked around by some clever engineering using duct tape, the flight manual, and a spare filtration unit. If one were to hang a chilled (say 5C) beercan from a slender thread in a 735K 9.3 MPa atmosphere, I do not know how long it would be before it explodes from boiling. (The good news: water won't boil until it's over 300 degrees C in 9.3 MPa of atmosphere, and beer is mostly water. The bad news: I'm not sure I'd want to drink beer or even handle a beer can at 300 degrees C. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ic/watvap.html ) - Brad Guth -- #191, Useless C++ Programming Idea #889123: std::vector... v; for(int i = 0; i v.size(); i++) v.erase(v.begin() + i); -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#180
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How cool is VL2
In sci.physics, Phineas T Puddleduck
wrote on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:33:44 +0100 : In article , The Ghost In The Machine wrote: Or perhaps it's something else. I'd have to look. It's interesting either way, but apparently not lethal; Buzz Aldrin after all survived long enough to punch someone in the nose after said someone asked a stupid question, many years later. ;-) My hero! And here's your hero in action, apparently. ;-) http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=3844 Can't say I blame him. -- #191, Windows. Multi-platform(1), multi-tasking(1), multi-user(1). (1) if one defines "multi" as "exactly one". -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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