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Ion drive for aircraft imminent.



 
 
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  #13  
Old November 2nd 16, 03:12 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.space.policy,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2
Default Ion drive for aircraft imminent.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 19:10:39 -0500, Yuri Kreaton
wrote:

how many pounds of thrust does it take to keep 4000 pounds up in the
air, stationary, and then gliding ?


Zero using baloons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy5qUexdMVI
http://mavericklsa.com

If you don't like the baloons:
"4 Real Flying Cars That Actually Fly"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXuypU5lDsM
"10 Amazing Flying Cars You Won't Believe"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-uq1Uqp_8g

Sorry. I couldn't find any numbers on gas mileage.
http://www.cessna150152.com/faqs/performance.htm
A Cessna 150 gets 15 to 22 miles/gallon.
My 2001 Subaru Forester gets about 21 miles/gallon.
The difference is wasted fuel while idling, stop-n-go traffic, and an
engine that's not optimized for operating in a narrow rpm range.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #16  
Old November 2nd 16, 09:33 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Robert Baer
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Posts: 11
Default Ion drive for aircraft imminent.

Robert Clark wrote:
Nanotechnology makes possible an "ion drive" for air vehicles analogous
to the famous ion drive of NASA's deep space probes:

Carbon nanotubes for "Ionic Wind" Craft or "Ionocraft".
Clark R*
Department of Mathematics, Widener University, USA
Review Article
Volume 1 Issue 2 / Received Date: September 26, 2016 / Published Date:
October 20, 2016
Abstract
Peter Thiel of the Founders Fund once famously said, "We wanted flying
cars, and we got 140 characters."But nanotechnology now does make
possible the long desired flying cars. It's a different propulsion
method though than propellers or jets however. It's propulsion by
electric fields known as electrohydrodynamic propulsion (EHD). It works
by ionizing air then using electric fields to propel the charged air
molecules rearward, thus producing thrust. It's quite analogous to the
famous space ion drive of NASA. EHD has been known at least since the
sixties. Its problem is, as with ion drive, the thrust is so low. So far
the EHD craft have not been able to lift both themselves and their power
supplies. The ones made so far leave the power supply on the ground and
connect to the craft through power cables. But the equations of EHD
suggest the thrust for the power required gets larger for thinner
ionizing wires. In fact if the wires are at the nanoscale then this
important thrust-to-power ratio can be a hundred times higher than for
the craft constructed so far. This would be enough to lift the craft and
the power supply. This research is to prove what the mathematics
suggests. Note that if it works then all propeller and rotor driven
craft become obsolete. Also, intermediate range automobile travel would
be taken over by the EHD craft, so a large proportion of
carbon-emissions would be eliminated, replaced by this zero-emission
travel method. In regards to space propulsion, since EHD is so similar
to ion drive, using components at the nanoscale may also work to improve
the thrust of ion drive. This would be important to shortening the
flight times of spacecraft using such drives. This is important not just
for robotic spacecraft but also satellites that use such ion drives to
reach their final GEO destinations. As it is now, the ion drives used
have such low thrust it takes months for such satellites to reach GEO,
resulting in millions of dollars of lost revenue to the satellite
companies. Being able to increase the thrust of these drives would
reduce the flight time, and therefore reduce this lost revenue.
Keywords: Electrohydrodynamic propulsion; Carbon nanotubes; Nanowires;
Ionic wind; Ionocraft; Plasma drive
https://medwinpublishers.com/NNOA/vo...=23&issueId=63

Bob Clark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the Isp?

  #17  
Old November 2nd 16, 07:47 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Bill Martin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Ion drive for aircraft imminent.

On 11/01/2016 08:09 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
Nanotechnology makes possible an "ion drive" for air vehicles analogous
to the famous ion drive of NASA's deep space probes:

SNIP

I'll see your ion drive and raise you one baloney drive. It's very
efficient, just plug it into the internet and it recharges.
-----------------------------------------------------------


  #20  
Old November 3rd 16, 09:05 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.space.policy,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
mike[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Ion drive for aircraft imminent.

On 11/2/2016 1:33 AM, Robert Baer wrote:
Robert Clark wrote:
Nanotechnology makes possible an "ion drive" for air vehicles analogous
to the famous ion drive of NASA's deep space probes:

Carbon nanotubes for "Ionic Wind" Craft or "Ionocraft".
Clark R*
Department of Mathematics, Widener University, USA
Review Article
Volume 1 Issue 2 / Received Date: September 26, 2016 / Published Date:
October 20, 2016
Abstract
Peter Thiel of the Founders Fund once famously said, "We wanted flying
cars, and we got 140 characters."But nanotechnology now does make
possible the long desired flying cars. It's a different propulsion
method though than propellers or jets however. It's propulsion by
electric fields known as electrohydrodynamic propulsion (EHD). It works
by ionizing air then using electric fields to propel the charged air
molecules rearward, thus producing thrust. It's quite analogous to the
famous space ion drive of NASA. EHD has been known at least since the
sixties. Its problem is, as with ion drive, the thrust is so low. So far
the EHD craft have not been able to lift both themselves and their power
supplies. The ones made so far leave the power supply on the ground and
connect to the craft through power cables. But the equations of EHD
suggest the thrust for the power required gets larger for thinner
ionizing wires. In fact if the wires are at the nanoscale then this
important thrust-to-power ratio can be a hundred times higher than for
the craft constructed so far. This would be enough to lift the craft and
the power supply. This research is to prove what the mathematics
suggests. Note that if it works then all propeller and rotor driven
craft become obsolete. Also, intermediate range automobile travel would
be taken over by the EHD craft, so a large proportion of
carbon-emissions would be eliminated, replaced by this zero-emission
travel method. In regards to space propulsion, since EHD is so similar
to ion drive, using components at the nanoscale may also work to improve
the thrust of ion drive. This would be important to shortening the
flight times of spacecraft using such drives. This is important not just
for robotic spacecraft but also satellites that use such ion drives to
reach their final GEO destinations. As it is now, the ion drives used
have such low thrust it takes months for such satellites to reach GEO,
resulting in millions of dollars of lost revenue to the satellite
companies. Being able to increase the thrust of these drives would
reduce the flight time, and therefore reduce this lost revenue.
Keywords: Electrohydrodynamic propulsion; Carbon nanotubes; Nanowires;
Ionic wind; Ionocraft; Plasma drive
https://medwinpublishers.com/NNOA/vo...=23&issueId=63

Bob Clark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What is the Isp?

What good is ion drive?
If you want to get from here to there, you need an energy source
sufficient to accelerate/maintain/decelerate some mass.
Doesn't matter how you do it, you can't get there on less energy,
given current physics.

If you're in space with low friction losses, you can use an electric field
to accelerate a small mass to high velocity to generate thrust.
But you still have to have the energy source to drive it.
If you're not in a hurry and are close to a star, no problem.

A terrestrial vehicle like a flying car does not sound well
suited to ion drive. Just lifting it off the ground with
anything resembling thrust is a deal breaker in so many ways.


 




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