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ISS - doing Russian military recon work?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 25th 08, 09:55 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?


Handheld cameras don't.


Not true at least inso far as digital cameras are concerned, the image
file is accompanied by an associated file that has details such as
make and model of camera, date of photo taken, exposure and a few
other details but aside from the time stamp, I doubt there's any other
militarily useful information.

  #23  
Old August 25th 08, 03:44 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?



John Doe wrote:

For a picture to have value to the military, it need to be accompanied
with precise position, time, attitude and altitude. satellites do that.
Handheld cameras don't.


If you are doing precision targeting, you may need that, but for just
checking up on what's going on on the ground, time and date will be
enough if you can locate what the photo is of by recognizable features
on the ground. Measuring those will give you its scale.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were checking up on the condition
of the British-owned oil pipeline they attacked:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/154938

Pat
  #24  
Old August 25th 08, 05:56 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?

On Aug 25, 7:44*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
John Doe wrote:

For a picture to have value to the military, it need to be accompanied
with precise position, time, attitude and altitude. satellites do that.
Handheld cameras don't.


If you are doing precision targeting, you may need that, but for just
checking up on what's going on on the ground, time and date will be
enough if you can locate what the photo is of by recognizable features
on the ground. Measuring those will give you its scale.


I agree that for many purposes, like BDA, precision is a lesser
concern: Does the runway have craters in it or not? Is the building
still standing? Etc.

Also, if you've done your homework, you already know the coordinates
of conspicuous fixed points in the image and can use that to determine
the coordinates of new features.

More also, if you actually need look angles, the time contained in the
ISS camera data is precise down to the millisecond (whether it's that
accurate is a relevant question). Since the ISS orbital elements are
freely available, the time can be used to determine the location of
the space station with considerable accuracy.
  #25  
Old August 26th 08, 04:21 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Allen Thomson
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/commu...,7133437.story

Cosmonaut's photos of Georgia spur inquiry
Robert Block and Mark K. Matthews | Sentinel Staff Writers
August 26, 2008

CAPE CANAVERAL - Just days after the Russian army rolled into Georgia,
Moscow instructed a Russian crew member aboard the international space
station to shoot pictures of the breakaway South Ossetia province from
200 miles above Earth.

Russia claims that cosmonaut Oleg Kononenko's photos Aug. 9 were part
of a digital-mapping exercise, done for "humanitarian" reasons. But
some space experts say it is possible the pictures were part of a
military-related reconnaissance exercise that made use of the vantage
point of the orbiting lab complex.

The incident, referenced in a status report on NASA's Web site more
than two weeks ago and first reported by Aviation Week, comes as
reaction to the Russian invasion of Georgia is threatening to disrupt
America's space program.


Imperils U.S. space program

NASA is depending on Russian rockets to ferry U.S. astronauts to the
space station once the shuttle program is shut down in 2010. But using
Russian-built Soyuz rockets will require congressional authorization,
already problematic because of deteriorating U.S.-Russian relations.

A congressional decision that the Russians photographed Georgia for
military reasons could derail NASA's plans to pay hundreds of millions
of dollars for Russian transport to the $100 billion station.

The international partnership agreement that governs the station says
it shall be used for peaceful purposes, though military use is not
prohibited.

On Monday, NASA played down the incident, saying there is no reason to
think Russia wanted the photos for military purposes. But explanations
of why they were shot varied.

NASA spokesman John Yembrick said the Russians openly requested
permission to shoot "water-management" photos. "It was not
clandestine," he said.

In the run-up to hostilities, Russian news media reported that water
was scarce in Tskhinvali, the main city in South Ossetia, because
Georgian villagers to the south of the city had diverted sources. Once
fighting broke out, there were reports that international aid
organizations were struggling to get water to people.

Yembrick later declared that the Russians said the photos were part of
a long-standing Earth observation program and that Kononenko also
photographed other parts of Russia as the space station moved east.

Yembrick said the U.S. also has asked astronauts to take pictures of
world events, including in Afghanistan and Iraq.

"If there is an earthquake, fire, disaster, bombings, a
hurricane . . . and [the station is] over it at a good angle,
sometimes we take photos of it," Yembrick said. "Just because we are
taking photos of Afghanistan or any other area doesn't mean we are
doing it for military reasons."

Russian space expert Jeffrey Manber, who once worked for the Russian
space concern NPO Energia and helped negotiate Russia's involvement
with the space station, said it was possible that a Russian decision-
maker wanted to assess damage caused by the invasion but had no other
way to get images. Russian agencies often don't readily share
intelligence information, he said.

Taking pictures is a common assignment for crew members. When former
NASA astronaut Leroy Chiao was aboard the station from October 2004 to
April 2005, he said he shot more than 16,000 pictures of Earth with a
camera similar to the one used by Kononenko.

Among them were pictures of Iraq after the U.S. attacked, he said. But
Chiao said the resolution wasn't sharp enough to yield much military
value.

"I would be surprised if this order came from the [Russian] military,"
he said. "It's possible, but I would be surprised."


Feeney wants to know more

U.S. Rep. Tom Feeney, R-Oviedo, the top Republican on the House
subcommittee that oversees NASA, wanted more information before
responding.

"By definition, the space station is to be used for peaceful
purposes," he said. "It is a concern when any of our international
space partners use the station . . . for what could be used for
strategy or tactics," he said. "But those lines are awfully gray. Are
you going to stop our astronauts from taking pictures of the Middle
East because there's a conflict there?"

An official with the State Department said it was up to NASA to
"evaluate whether this [incident] is any kind of a violation."


  #26  
Old August 26th 08, 08:36 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Derek Lyons
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?

John Doe wrote:

For a picture to have value to the military, it need to be accompanied
with precise position, time, attitude and altitude. satellites do that.
Handheld cameras don't.


We need to point out that the ISS is a satellite?

D.
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  #27  
Old August 27th 08, 05:39 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?

Pat Flannery writes:

If you are doing precision targeting, you may need that, but ...


All this conjures up images of a cross-hair overlay added to one of the
observation port windows with all the lettering in Cyrillic....

That'd be in the Unity module of course.... ;-)

  #28  
Old August 27th 08, 01:30 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Jochem Huhmann
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?

Allen Thomson writes:

Russia claims that cosmonaut Oleg Kononenko's photos Aug. 9 were part
of a digital-mapping exercise, done for "humanitarian" reasons. But
some space experts say it is possible the pictures were part of a
military-related reconnaissance exercise that made use of the vantage
point of the orbiting lab complex.


I'm pretty sure that Russia has access to better images from military
sources. They may not be able to *use* them for less than purely
military forces though, while pictures taken on the ISS may be used more
openly. I'm also sure that the pictures *will* be looked at by military
eyes, but so what?

The international partnership agreement that governs the station says
it shall be used for peaceful purposes, though military use is not
prohibited.


I really don't think this is an issue as long as you don't want to make
it an issue.

In the run-up to hostilities, Russian news media reported that water
was scarce in Tskhinvali, the main city in South Ossetia, because
Georgian villagers to the south of the city had diverted sources. Once
fighting broke out, there were reports that international aid
organizations were struggling to get water to people.

Yembrick later declared that the Russians said the photos were part of
a long-standing Earth observation program and that Kononenko also
photographed other parts of Russia as the space station moved east.

Yembrick said the U.S. also has asked astronauts to take pictures of
world events, including in Afghanistan and Iraq.


Naturally.

U.S. Rep. Tom Feeney, R-Oviedo, the top Republican on the House
subcommittee that oversees NASA, wanted more information before
responding.

"By definition, the space station is to be used for peaceful
purposes," he said. "It is a concern when any of our international
space partners use the station . . . for what could be used for
strategy or tactics," he said. "But those lines are awfully gray. Are
you going to stop our astronauts from taking pictures of the Middle
East because there's a conflict there?"

An official with the State Department said it was up to NASA to
"evaluate whether this [incident] is any kind of a violation."


Make it mandatory to publish all pictures taken off the ISS online ;-)


Jochem

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longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
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  #29  
Old August 29th 08, 04:21 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
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Default ISS - doing Russian military recon work?


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...s/OSS08228.xml

Cosmonaut Photographed South Ossetia From ISS
Aug 22, 2008
By Frank Morring, Jr.

[EXCERPT]

Russia has claimed humanitarian motives in its use of the
International Space Station (ISS) to collect overhead imagery of South
Ossetia shortly after it invaded the breakaway Georgian province.

On Aug. 9 Cosmonaut Oleg Kononenko used a digital camera equipped with
an 800mm telephoto lens and a video camera to photograph "after-
effects of border conflict operations in the Caucasus," according to
the ISS status report for that day published by NASA on its website.

Use of the space station for military purposes would violate the Jan.
29, 1998, ISS cooperation agreement between NASA and the Russian Space
Agency, which makes repeated references to the civil nature of the
orbiting facility.

"The Space Station together with its additions of evolutionary
capability will remain a civil station, and its operation and
utilization will be for peaceful purposes, in accordance with
international law," reads Article 14 of the agreement.

Apparently with that language in mind, Russia's space agency Roscosmos
informed the U.S. space agency that Kononenko's actions two days after
Russian forces moved into South Ossetia were not military in nature.

"Roscosmos informed us that the pictures were requested to support
potential humanitarian activities in the area, including serious water
resource management issues," said a spokesman for NASA's Office of
External Relations, who added that NASA was not pursuing the matter.

Kononenko's photography was conducted as part of the long-running
Russian "Uragan" (hurricane) Earth-imaging program on the ISS,
according to the NASA status report. On Aug. 9, in addition to the war
zone, the civilian cosmonaut photographed glaciers on the north slope
of the Caucasus, the Kalmyk steppe, the Volga River from Astrakhan to
the Caspian Sea, and other surface features as the space station moved
eastward.
 




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