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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
Bill wrote in
news On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:56:14 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote: Bill wrote in : On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:25:47 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:55:19 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote: The US currently uses the equivalent of about one terrawatt-hour of gasoline right now. How long is "now"? If you don't want to specify a time interval, you should talk about TW instead of TWh. The fellow is being absurd. Chris is, yes. _No one_ has disputed the fact that the US does not have the infrastructure to support large numbers of EVs; Chris has claimed, specifically, that the 30-50% increase in power generating capcaity and infrastructure needed to distribute it will magically appear because he wants it to. nor that would take considerable time and expese to get the US to a place where we could sustain millions of EVs on the road on a daily basis. The proposal (in multiple jurisdictions) is to force the replacement of *all* gasoline powered cars. So, no, not millions of EVs, over a hundred million. Stop lying about what's been said. Or not. We both know that, like Chris, you will *never* address the real issues, because you *know* I'm right. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek What makes "winning" this petty squabble so important to you that you would want to keep pursuing the topic with such a vengeance? Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm trying to win anything? Taunting stupid people amuses me. There is no "win." The only way to not lose is to not play. You're not not playing. It's all meaningless. It has been all along. We've done this before, Chris and I, and he refused to address any of the very real obstacles to universal adoption of EVs then, too. Neither one of you is any position to influence, in the _ANY_ of the matters that you're so bitterly contesting. Indeed. But only one of us is aware of it. It's like people in a stadium, fighting between themselve over which sports team is the better? The "game" is on the field - and neither of you appear to be players or coaches. Like a good soccer hooligan, it's not about the game, it's about starting a fight. The stadium is just a convenient place to find people to sucker punch. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. |
#82
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:37:17 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:03:32 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote: On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of course, not for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to be installed in the garage. I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did you switch to 50Hz as well? U.S. homes receive their power off of a center tapped transformer which provides (nominally) 120 volts on each leg. Most outlets are wired between the center tap and one of the two legs, providing 120 V. Several outlets are commonly wired across the outside legs, providing 240 V. These are usually found in laundry areas (for electric dryers), in kitchens (for electric stoves and ovens), and in garages (for tools such as welders and compressors). It is simple enough to add 240 V outlets when needed for other purposes (for instance, I put a 50A 240 V outlet in my wife's studio for an electric kiln). (Houses typically have 200 amp service, but can opt for 400 amp without the power company needing to make any wiring changes.) Interesting - so you have two-phase AC with a 180 deg difference between the phases! We don't have that, instead we have three-phase AC with 120 deg difference between the phases. Connecting between two phases will increase the voltage not hy a factor of sqrt(4) but by a factor of sqrt(3) to 400v from the single phase voltage of 230V. |
#83
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong
with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:55:19 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote: I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did you switch to 50Hz as well? They have 220V in some special outlets, such as the huge one that the stove is plugged into. Then why not have 220V in all outlets, like we have? |
#84
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:47:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote: Paul Schlyter wrote in : On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of course, not for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to be installed in the garage. I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did you switch to 50Hz as well? Most of the outlets aer 110 volts. But the service coming into the house is always 220 volt, three phase, which is commonly split into two 110 volt sides. (Except when there's 440 volt three phase, which is rare in residences.) Electric stoves and dryers (which generally requires 200 volt, 3 phase) are common enough that pretty much all homes have it available (I suspect it's required by building codes, in fact). Why are the three phases split into only two sides? What happened to the third phase? |
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:21:02 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: Some cars will take power from the system, some will provide it. That's part of how charge balancing works in a system like that. Users pay for what they consume, and are compensated for what they provide. Interesting! So you then connect your car not just to charge it, but sometimes to discharge it? |
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:39:14 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote: Nothing that doesn't already exist is certain. I mean, we still don't have a cure for AIDS. Some things are certain enough. We need the phrase "relatively certain" as opposed to "absolutely certain"... :-) |
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:50:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote: I'm still waiting for one of the EV True Believers to explain who tens of millions of people who live in rentals (many of them with no off-street parking) will get access to a charger. Simöle, just run a cable from your window down to your car in the street. :-) Or how to stuff enough energy down a copper wire to drive 300 miles in a few minutes with less than 3 megawatts. Boy, are you impatient! FYI: one night lasts much much longer than 3 minutes... I'll be waiting for a long, long time. Yep, longer than 3 minutes... |
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:33:12 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:21:02 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: Some cars will take power from the system, some will provide it. That's part of how charge balancing works in a system like that. Users pay for what they consume, and are compensated for what they provide. Interesting! So you then connect your car not just to charge it, but sometimes to discharge it? Exactly. Most models of a power grid with a substantial amount of wind and solar now include this in their design. A huge amount of fixed storage can be eliminated from the system once there's a large enough base of electric vehicles. (Of course, the design would only discharge within parameters the driver defines. If they needed a full charge, they might not offer to supply power. But most of the time, for most people, reducing your battery charge by a few percent would have no practical impact.) |
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:21:07 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote: Interesting - so you have two-phase AC with a 180 deg difference between the phases! We don't have that, instead we have three-phase AC with 120 deg difference between the phases. Connecting between two phases will increase the voltage not hy a factor of sqrt(4) but by a factor of sqrt(3) to 400v from the single phase voltage of 230V. Split-phase is actually a single phase system. We also have three-phase systems, but they're usually only found in commercial installations. But I do know people who have had them installed residentially to power their personal shops. |
#90
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NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:26:51 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote: On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:47:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote: Paul Schlyter wrote in : On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson wrote: Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of course, not for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to be installed in the garage. I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did you switch to 50Hz as well? Most of the outlets aer 110 volts. But the service coming into the house is always 220 volt, three phase, which is commonly split into two 110 volt sides. (Except when there's 440 volt three phase, which is rare in residences.) Electric stoves and dryers (which generally requires 200 volt, 3 phase) are common enough that pretty much all homes have it available (I suspect it's required by building codes, in fact). Why are the three phases split into only two sides? What happened to the third phase? The power is distributed as two wires and a neutral (ground). |
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