A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Amateur Astronomy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old February 21st 18, 12:50 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 331
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

Bill wrote in
news
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:56:14 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha wrote:

Bill wrote in
:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:25:47 +0100, Paul Schlyter wrote:

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:55:19 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha wrote:
The US currently uses the equivalent of about one
terrawatt-hour of gasoline right now.

How long is "now"? If you don't want to specify a time
interval, you should talk about TW instead of TWh.

The fellow is being absurd.


Chris is, yes.

_No one_ has disputed the fact that the US does not have the
infrastructure to support large numbers of EVs;


Chris has claimed, specifically, that the 30-50% increase in
power generating capcaity and infrastructure needed to
distribute it will magically appear because he wants it to.

nor that would
take considerable time and expese to get the US to a place
where we could sustain millions of EVs on the road on a daily
basis.

The proposal (in multiple jurisdictions) is to force the
replacement of *all* gasoline powered cars. So, no, not
millions of EVs, over a hundred million.

Stop lying about what's been said. Or not. We both know that,
like Chris, you will *never* address the real issues, because
you *know* I'm right.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek


What makes "winning" this petty squabble so important to you
that you would want to keep pursuing the topic with such a
vengeance?


Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm trying to win
anything? Taunting stupid people amuses me. There is no "win." The
only way to not lose is to not play.

You're not not playing.

It's all meaningless.


It has been all along. We've done this before, Chris and I, and he
refused to address any of the very real obstacles to universal
adoption of EVs then, too.

Neither one of you is any position to
influence, in the _ANY_ of the matters that you're so
bitterly contesting.


Indeed. But only one of us is aware of it.

It's like people in a stadium, fighting
between themselve over which sports team is the better? The
"game" is on the field - and neither of you appear to be players
or coaches.


Like a good soccer hooligan, it's not about the game, it's about
starting a fight. The stadium is just a convenient place to find
people to sucker punch.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #82  
Old February 21st 18, 07:21 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:37:17 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:03:32 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:


On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of

course,
not
for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to be
installed in the garage.


I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did

you
switch to 50Hz as well?


U.S. homes receive their power off of a center tapped transformer
which provides (nominally) 120 volts on each leg. Most outlets are
wired between the center tap and one of the two legs, providing 120

V.
Several outlets are commonly wired across the outside legs,

providing
240 V. These are usually found in laundry areas (for electric

dryers),
in kitchens (for electric stoves and ovens), and in garages (for

tools
such as welders and compressors). It is simple enough to add 240 V
outlets when needed for other purposes (for instance, I put a 50A

240
V outlet in my wife's studio for an electric kiln).


(Houses typically have 200 amp service, but can opt for 400 amp
without the power company needing to make any wiring changes.)


Interesting - so you have two-phase AC with a 180 deg difference
between the phases! We don't have that, instead we have three-phase
AC with 120 deg difference between the phases. Connecting between two
phases will increase the voltage not hy a factor of sqrt(4) but by a
factor of sqrt(3) to 400v from the single phase voltage of 230V.
  #83  
Old February 21st 18, 07:23 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:55:19 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc
wrote:
I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did

you
switch to 50Hz as well?


They have 220V in some special outlets, such as the huge one that

the
stove is plugged into.


Then why not have 220V in all outlets, like we have?
  #84  
Old February 21st 18, 07:26 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:47:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote:
Paul Schlyter wrote in
:



On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of
course,

not
for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to
be installed in the garage.


I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did
you switch to 50Hz as well?

Most of the outlets aer 110 volts. But the service coming into the
house is always 220 volt, three phase, which is commonly split into
two 110 volt sides. (Except when there's 440 volt three phase,

which
is rare in residences.) Electric stoves and dryers (which generally
requires 200 volt, 3 phase) are common enough that pretty much all
homes have it available (I suspect it's required by building codes,
in fact).


Why are the three phases split into only two sides? What happened to
the third phase?
  #85  
Old February 21st 18, 07:33 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:21:02 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Some cars will take power from the system, some will provide it.
That's part of how charge balancing works in a system like that.

Users
pay for what they consume, and are compensated for what they

provide.

Interesting! So you then connect your car not just to charge it, but
sometimes to discharge it?
  #86  
Old February 21st 18, 07:35 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 07:39:14 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Nothing that doesn't already exist is certain. I mean, we still

don't
have a cure for AIDS.


Some things are certain enough.


We need the phrase "relatively certain" as opposed to "absolutely
certain"... :-)
  #87  
Old February 21st 18, 07:43 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:50:16 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote:
I'm still waiting for one of the EV True Believers to explain who
tens of millions of people who live in rentals (many of them with

no
off-street parking) will get access to a charger.


Simöle, just run a cable from your window down to your car in the
street. :-)

Or how to stuff enough energy down a copper wire to drive 300 miles
in a few minutes with less than 3 megawatts.


Boy, are you impatient! FYI: one night lasts much much longer than 3
minutes...


I'll be waiting for a long, long time.


Yep, longer than 3 minutes...
  #88  
Old February 21st 18, 09:07 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:33:12 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 13:21:02 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Some cars will take power from the system, some will provide it.
That's part of how charge balancing works in a system like that.

Users
pay for what they consume, and are compensated for what they

provide.

Interesting! So you then connect your car not just to charge it, but
sometimes to discharge it?


Exactly. Most models of a power grid with a substantial amount of wind
and solar now include this in their design. A huge amount of fixed
storage can be eliminated from the system once there's a large enough
base of electric vehicles.

(Of course, the design would only discharge within parameters the
driver defines. If they needed a full charge, they might not offer to
supply power. But most of the time, for most people, reducing your
battery charge by a few percent would have no practical impact.)
  #89  
Old February 21st 18, 09:10 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:21:07 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

Interesting - so you have two-phase AC with a 180 deg difference
between the phases! We don't have that, instead we have three-phase
AC with 120 deg difference between the phases. Connecting between two
phases will increase the voltage not hy a factor of sqrt(4) but by a
factor of sqrt(3) to 400v from the single phase voltage of 230V.


Split-phase is actually a single phase system. We also have
three-phase systems, but they're usually only found in commercial
installations. But I do know people who have had them installed
residentially to power their personal shops.
  #90  
Old February 21st 18, 09:11 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrong with the Webb telescope?

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 07:26:51 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:47:03 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote:
Paul Schlyter wrote in
:



On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:07:00 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
Almost every home has 220V service with 30-50A fusing. Of
course,
not
for every outlet, so it's true that a new outlet might need to
be installed in the garage.

I thought the US had 110V in their outlets. Did thar change? Did
you switch to 50Hz as well?

Most of the outlets aer 110 volts. But the service coming into the
house is always 220 volt, three phase, which is commonly split into
two 110 volt sides. (Except when there's 440 volt three phase,

which
is rare in residences.) Electric stoves and dryers (which generally
requires 200 volt, 3 phase) are common enough that pretty much all
homes have it available (I suspect it's required by building codes,
in fact).


Why are the three phases split into only two sides? What happened to
the third phase?


The power is distributed as two wires and a neutral (ground).
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NASA's biggest worry right now: What if something goes wrongwith the Webb telescope? Chris.B[_3_] Amateur Astronomy 17 February 18th 18 01:11 AM
Congress to Keep Funding NASA's Webb Telescope Sam Wormley[_2_] Amateur Astronomy 14 November 19th 11 03:23 AM
NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone Doug Freyburger Policy 9 September 18th 11 01:39 AM
NASA Chief to Congress: Save the James Webb Space Telescope Sam Wormley[_2_] Amateur Astronomy 21 July 15th 11 08:48 PM
NASA Issues Modification to James Webb Space Telescope Contract Ron Baalke Misc 0 September 3rd 03 11:49 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.