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#11
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Painius wrote,
How can you be so certain that the Big Bang occurred? It's the "working backwards it **must** come to a point" that sticks in my craw. .... How can such an assumption be "good science". Paine, a web search under 'Big Bang Nucleosynthesis' will turn up some great info. The synthesis of the first elements, and particularly the existance of deuterium which cannot be produced by stellar processes, is consistent with a superhot BB event. This is one cornerstone of the BB model. Nature loves OSCILLATION, vibration, back n forth, up n down, in n out, frequency, wavelength, lambda... but all of a sudden the natural Universe just goes one way? Once we can get past the void-space/ universal c-invariance idea, *our visible cosmos* is seen as having a finite beginning-point and end point, in the Big Bang-Big Crunch. "Ever-accelerating expansion" is seen as a grand illusion when spatial density and c are allowed to rise at cosmological distances... and *our visible cosmos* is allowed to come into its Contraction phase, eventually leading to the Big Crunch. And is _is_ oscillatory and reciprochal. That's ONE frame of referance, the 'inside' frame, bounded by our sphere of visibility. Then there's the imaginal 'outside' frame, from which we see an overarching, continuoulsy-running Process at work, analogous to the freon cycle in refrigeration. The sphere of *our visible cosmos* becomes like a cluster of freon molecules embedded in the flowing Process. The cluster experienced the 'bang' of its emergence and will experience the 'crunch' of its re-ingestion back into the compressor. Yet the greater Process remains perpetual and unchanging, fulfilling the original lambda idea of a Steady-State universe. All its sub-phases- Accelerating expansion, decelerating expansion, Contraction, and Implosion are all running simultaneously, each at its respective station on the cycle. But as long as we cling to the void-space/ universal c-invariance regime, we'll hafta settle for a 'one-shot' BB, ever-accelerating expansion of the "void" and an ignominious entropic heat death in the far future. A very dissatisfying and counter-intuitive prospect, to say the least. oc To reply by e-mail please use anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#12
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G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
Fred You are right to talk about what we can find in latest books is good but it is as not very interesting. We could tell each other to go to GOOGLE,and that is not going to be that interesting. Like Einstien told a friend "now that they know my theories I'm just an old man that does not wear socks. If we can discuss stuff where great minds have left off(add to their books) that makes science interesting. We have to express some of our own thinking. We can't be parrots. Even thinking can be boring unless we can think of new stuff. There is plenty of our own thoughts without using thoughts of others I think so Thinking about and discussing the unknown is the most fun. The past century "fusion" was interesting,and new. Today its not all that interesting anymore. Unknowns like dark matter. gamma explosions blackholes and space are more to my liking. Gravity will always be number 1 Bert Heavy! (;-)) -- Regards Fred Remove FFFf to reply, please |
#13
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Painius wrote:
"Fred Williams" wrote... in message ... . . . The journals are full of attempts to explain why the BB occurred because it's one of the next big questions. It's not much fun talking about the stuff we already know. is it?! . . . Good stuff, Fred! Let's see if we can make talking about the "stuff we already know" more fun! For nearly two thousand years following Ptolemy, people "already knew" that Earth was the center of the Universe. The only ones who thought it might be fun talking about it were people like Copernicus, Galileo, Shapley, Hubble. Can we think of more examples where talking about the stuff we already know can be an exceeding pleasure? Yeah, the category of "What we think we know." is sometimes even more fun: Good point. Change subject: Imagine Galileo with his telescope first turned to the heavens and seeing things no one else could see. The sky became a different place. That was a unique moment in astronomy; a unique experience. -- Regards Fred Remove FFFf to reply, please |
#14
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Just to expand a bit more on the refrigeration cycle as an analogy of
the CBB (Continuous BB) Process-- The compressor/ condenser represent the pre-BB state; the compressor pressurizes the condenser (the 'hot' coil on the back of the fridge). The hot, pressurized liquid freon erupts thru a restrictor valve (a tiny pin hole), flashing into a gas in the evaporator, the 'freezing unit' inside the fridge. That point of eruption represents the 'Big Bang' point, the phase-change from the pre-BB state into the externalized universe. The gaseous freon is finally re-ingested back into the continuously-running compressor powering the cycle. An individual cluster of freon molecules indeed experiences a 'bang-squeeze, bang-squeeze' oscillation as it goes thru the cycle- like the reciprocation of a piston engine. But the larger Process is continuously running, like a gas turbine. As illustrated in the freon cycle analogy, the entire externalized universe is coldest part of the cycle, while the pre-BB state is the hottest. A hypermassive BH 'Engine' at the core of the universe, the Primal particle, is the 'compressor-condenser' powering and sustaining the Process, intaking the old, spent creation thru its poles while erupting brand-new spacetime out its spinning equator. The externalized Process, the macro-universe itself, assumes the form of the dual-hemisphered toroid with a common equator, rotating on a polar axis. The CBB model is not (yet) subject to empirical proof, and definitely falls under the realm of philosophy. Yet it offers a rational, intellectually pleasing alternative to the stunted and truncated current model. But then, maybe everybody's happy with a 'one shot' BB with *everything* suddenly coming from 'nothing', void space, universal c-invariance, and an open-ended entropic run down back to 'nothing'. oc To reply by e-mail please use anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#15
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Dave George Gamow before the BB was greatly excepted figured out the
back ground temperature of space has cooled down to 3K since the explosion. We know it today to be 2.7K That has to tell us something. My own thoughts are the big bang took place 22 billion LY ago. That in the last 11 billion LY ago there has been mini-bangs created by collisions between two black holes,and this happens on average one in a 24 hour period. The biggest mini-bang happened in 1999,and for a second was equal to all the energy of the universe. This is based on good science,and not science fiction. I just add my own thoughts,and hope that will add to the interest. The universe belongs to all of us.This is our spacetime. Let use it wisely,and don't let are ego spoil are good times together. No one here is getting a Nobel this year. Not even me.(I deserve one) Bert |
#16
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"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message...
... Just to expand a bit more on the refrigeration cycle as an analogy of the CBB (Continuous BB) Process-- The compressor/ condenser represent the pre-BB state; the compressor pressurizes the condenser (the 'hot' coil on the back of the fridge). The hot, pressurized liquid freon erupts thru a restrictor valve (a tiny pin hole), flashing into a gas in the evaporator, the 'freezing unit' inside the fridge. That point of eruption represents the 'Big Bang' point, the phase-change from the pre-BB state into the externalized universe. The gaseous freon is finally re-ingested back into the continuously-running compressor powering the cycle. An individual cluster of freon molecules indeed experiences a 'bang-squeeze, bang-squeeze' oscillation as it goes thru the cycle- like the reciprocation of a piston engine. But the larger Process is continuously running, like a gas turbine. As illustrated in the freon cycle analogy, the entire externalized universe is coldest part of the cycle, while the pre-BB state is the hottest. A hypermassive BH 'Engine' at the core of the universe, the Primal particle, is the 'compressor-condenser' powering and sustaining the Process, intaking the old, spent creation thru its poles while erupting brand-new spacetime out its spinning equator. The externalized Process, the macro-universe itself, assumes the form of the dual-hemisphered toroid with a common equator, rotating on a polar axis. The CBB model is not (yet) subject to empirical proof, and definitely falls under the realm of philosophy. Yet it offers a rational, intellectually pleasing alternative to the stunted and truncated current model. But then, maybe everybody's happy with a 'one shot' BB with *everything* suddenly coming from 'nothing', void space, universal c-invariance, and an open-ended entropic run down back to 'nothing'. oc To reply by e-mail please use anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ I think it's *high* time for Science to conquer death... All the OTHER religions have! happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Tender is my love for thee Oh star so close at hand, Warming those so dear to me As we lay on the sand... It's so easy to believe In all this beachin' fun, That some day you and i will be-- Altogether one. Paine Ellsworth |
#17
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In message
, Painius writes I think it's *high* time for Science to conquer death... All the OTHER religions have! "Gilgamesh, whither rovest thou? The life thou pursuest thou shalt not find. When the gods created mankind, Death for mankind they set aside, Life in their own hands retaining... Do we build a house for ever?" (3rd millennium BC, translation in "Intelligent Life in the Universe". They don't quote the source for this version) The Greeks had some myths about the undesirability of living forever, too. -- "Forty millions of miles it was from us, more than forty millions of miles of void" |
#18
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"Jonathan Silverlight" wrote...
in message ... Painius writes in message... , I think it's *high* time for Science to conquer death... All the OTHER religions have! "Gilgamesh, whither rovest thou? The life thou pursuest thou shalt not find. When the gods created mankind, Death for mankind they set aside, Life in their own hands retaining... Do we build a house for ever?" (3rd millennium BC, translation in "Intelligent Life in the Universe". They don't quote the source for this version) The Greeks had some myths about the undesirability of living forever, too. -- "Forty millions of miles it was from us, more than forty millions of miles of void" Ah yes, Jonathan... GILGAMESH! He who is awesome to perfection! "It was he who opened the mountain passes, who dug wells on the flank of the mountain. It was he who crossed the ocean, the vast seas, to the rising sun, who explored the world regions, seeking life." I guess the inability to conquer death *does* set science apart from the religions, doesn't it... -- happy days and... starry starry nights! Painius |
#19
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Hi Sally By the time science cures dying I will be dead. Being dead is
the same as not being alive. That means we were all dead. I think we all won natures big lottery by being alive. The chance of male sperm getting to the egg is many millions to one. Man wastes a lot of its sperm(one way or another) Woman"s eggs don't always get fertilized(sad but true) Best to do things natures way. The old must die. Rich people live longer than poor(This comes in with the survival of the fittest) I think if I had the money of Gates I might live a few years longer. Right now my American Express card is keeping me alive. Bert I think they will cry when I go |
#20
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"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message ... my American Express card is keeping me alive. Bert I think they will cry when I go I would...honestly. However, I reckon you have a good many years in you :-) Sally |
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