Last Longer (up to 500 seconds) on Way to Orbit - J2X Ultra Potencyfrom Stennis Labs ($350K)

On Nov 12, 12:16*pm, bob haller wrote:
Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

On Nov 12, 10:18*pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Nov 12, 12:16*pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.

On Nov 13, 12:09*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:





On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?

On Nov 13, 5:57*am, bob haller wrote:
On Nov 13, 12:09*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:





"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.

On Nov 13, 9:12*pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:57*am, bob haller wrote:





On Nov 13, 12:09*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

matt your ignoring the elephant in the room, the big budget
deficit....

when your cutting SS raising retirement age to 75 and ending medicare
as we know it.....

funding a mission to mars will be tough. for the voter it will look
like a grand waste of money.

incidently I support private industry to space, since its more
affordable!!

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
On Nov 13, 9:12 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Nov 13, 5:57 am, bob haller wrote:





On Nov 13, 12:09 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message


...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like
return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and
explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based
on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of
whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one
thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the
Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going
against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you
think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic
that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

matt your ignoring the elephant in the room, the big budget
deficit....

when your cutting SS raising retirement age to 75 and ending medicare
as we know it.....

funding a mission to mars will be tough. for the voter it will look
like a grand waste of money.

incidently I support private industry to space, since its more
affordable!!

And given Congressional Skeptics, who hold the purse strings, they'll be
lucky if they get 2/3 of the money NASA wants to provide them. Having Musk
shooting his mouth off about "retiring on Mars" hasn't helped his cause any.
Said it befo NASA explores, and Commercial exploits. Cut and dry, that is
it. Or is that simple concept beyond your comprehension? And you can forget
about outsourcing the explorattion mission to private industry-that ain't
gonna happen, zealots notwithstanding.

On Nov 14, 1:32*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Nov 13, 9:12 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:





On Nov 13, 5:57 am, bob haller wrote:

On Nov 13, 12:09 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like
return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and
explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based
on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of
whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one
thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the
Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going
against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you
think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic
that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

matt your ignoring the elephant in the room, the big budget
deficit....

when your cutting SS raising retirement age to 75 and ending medicare
as we know it.....

funding a mission to mars will be tough. for the voter it will look
like a grand waste of money.

incidently I support private industry to space, since its more
affordable!!

And given Congressional Skeptics, who hold the purse strings, they'll be
lucky if they get 2/3 of the money NASA wants to provide them. Having Musk
shooting his mouth off about "retiring on Mars" hasn't helped his cause any.
Said it befo NASA explores, and Commercial exploits. Cut and dry, that is
it. Or is that simple concept beyond your comprehension? And you can forget
about outsourcing the explorattion mission to private industry-that ain't
gonna happen, zealots notwithstanding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if nasa estimates cost of mars program at 10 times the cost of private
industry why should nasa get the job?

On Nov 14, 3:43*am, bob haller wrote:
On Nov 14, 1:32*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:





"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Nov 13, 9:12 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:57 am, bob haller wrote:

On Nov 13, 12:09 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like
return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and
explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based
on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of
whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one
thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the
Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going
against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you
think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic
that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

matt your ignoring the elephant in the room, the big budget
deficit....

when your cutting SS raising retirement age to 75 and ending medicare
as we know it.....

funding a mission to mars will be tough. for the voter it will look
like a grand waste of money.

incidently I support private industry to space, since its more
affordable!!

And given Congressional Skeptics, who hold the purse strings, they'll be
lucky if they get 2/3 of the money NASA wants to provide them. Having Musk
shooting his mouth off about "retiring on Mars" hasn't helped his cause any.
Said it befo NASA explores, and Commercial exploits. Cut and dry, that is
it. Or is that simple concept beyond your comprehension? And you can forget
about outsourcing the explorattion mission to private industry-that ain't
gonna happen, zealots notwithstanding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if nasa estimates cost of mars program at 10 times the cost of private
industry why should nasa get the job?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exploration is NASA's job, not the private sectors. How many times
does that have to be knocked into you. NASA explores, the private
sector exploits. Repeat as needed until you get that into your Luddite
skull.

On Nov 14, 1:21*pm, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:43*am, bob haller wrote:





On Nov 14, 1:32*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

....
On Nov 13, 9:12 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 13, 5:57 am, bob haller wrote:

On Nov 13, 12:09 am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message

...
On Nov 12, 10:18 pm, Matt Wiser wrote:

On Nov 12, 12:16 pm, bob haller wrote:

Said it before and I'll repeat: NASA does the hard stuff, like
return
to the moon, fly to

NEOs, visits Earth-Moon and Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, and
explores
Mars.

so whats nasa last accomplishment?

looks like apollo moon landing was its last accomplishement based
on
your criteria

Haller, your oppostion to any form of HSF is well known. Like your
crazy idea for mass-producing rovers like Spirit and Oppertunity. Do
the words "built by hand" ring a bell in that instance? Or your idea
of grounding the HSF program until we're ready for Mars. I'll remind
you: you were told this: Not only would you be laughed out of
whatever
hearing you put that proposal to, they'd also hold the door open for
you and give you a kick in the ass on the way out.

look at what this poster lisited as accomplishments..... according to
their criteria the last nasa accomplishment was landing on the moon/

what i think of HSF doesnt really matter since near every republican
candidate for president has pledged to END ALL HSF SPENDING.......

And even if they wanted to, Congress has to approve. And I suggest the
firestorm over ObamaSpace last year as proof. You can promise one
thing, but
there's an old adage in D.C.: "The Administration Proposes, but the
Congress
disposes." And have you heard Mr.Cain recently? He seems to be going
against
what you're saying.....Not that he's going to be POTUS...And do you
think
for a minute that Governor Perry is going to do something so drastic
that
it'd affect his home state? I doubt that very much.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

as congress slashes spending to kinda balance the budget, or lets the
overspending continue, at some near point we either cut entitlements
like SS medicare etc, or watch our country go bankrupt with riots in
the streets.

under such alternatives who will fund HSF?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It'll be funded, because given what Congress did to this
Administration's NASA plans from FY 11, there's too much politics
involved. Besides, Bobbert, your blatant opposition to ANY HSF, even
commercially provided, is well known. Like I said, if you dared
suggest giving it up to any Congressional Committee, you'd be out of
there so fast you wouldn't know what hit you, and they'd send you back
to the Luddites-by the way, there's only one major newspaper that
agrees with you: the L.A. Times, whose editorial board in the first
two years post-Columbia, was hostile to HSF. In recent years, they've
been more accomodating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

matt your ignoring the elephant in the room, the big budget
deficit....

when your cutting SS raising retirement age to 75 and ending medicare
as we know it.....

funding a mission to mars will be tough. for the voter it will look
like a grand waste of money.

incidently I support private industry to space, since its more
affordable!!

And given Congressional Skeptics, who hold the purse strings, they'll be
lucky if they get 2/3 of the money NASA wants to provide them. Having Musk
shooting his mouth off about "retiring on Mars" hasn't helped his cause any.
Said it befo NASA explores, and Commercial exploits. Cut and dry, that is
it. Or is that simple concept beyond your comprehension? And you can forget
about outsourcing the explorattion mission to private industry-that ain't
gonna happen, zealots notwithstanding.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if nasa estimates cost of mars program at 10 times the cost of private
industry why should nasa get the job?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exploration is NASA's job, not the private sectors. How many times
does that have to be knocked into you. NASA explores, the private
sector exploits. Repeat as needed until you get that into your Luddite
skull.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

so what can nasa afford to explore? the beach at KSC?

The imbeded costs of nasa have made exploration way too costly.

Have NASA spec what they want to do.... like land on mars explore X
number of miles with these experiments.

have private industry bid to build the device they design...