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NASA: New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever



 
 
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  #51  
Old August 3rd 15, 03:00 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

EMdrive paper and what original inventor Roger Shawyer believes is happening:

"The keys to EMDrive experiments are prove the propulsion is real and will work
in space. Find a way with theory or experiment to scale up the effect.

If it is real and the effect can be scaled up then at the very least space
travel is transformed.

Here is information from a Shawyer paper, his website FAQ and his videos. Roger
Shawyer is the original inventor of the EMdrive.

* Not Reactionless, but propellentless
* Shawyer background was with UK Army research and then in the space industry
* Main players in UK, China and the USA are pursuing EMDrive research
* At least three other countries (that Shawyer knows about) have serious
programs running and university departments and private individuals"

See:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/emd...-original.html
  #52  
Old August 3rd 15, 03:59 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

In article ,
says...

EMdrive paper and what original inventor Roger Shawyer believes is happening:

"The keys to EMDrive experiments are prove the propulsion is real and will work
in space. Find a way with theory or experiment to scale up the effect.

If it is real and the effect can be scaled up then at the very least space
travel is transformed.

Here is information from a Shawyer paper, his website FAQ and his videos. Roger
Shawyer is the original inventor of the EMdrive.

* Not Reactionless, but propellentless
* Shawyer background was with UK Army research and then in the space industry
* Main players in UK, China and the USA are pursuing EMDrive research
* At least three other countries (that Shawyer knows about) have serious
programs running and university departments and private individuals"

See:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/emd...-original.html

I'm still a bit skeptical of this thing. I keep thinking someone will
discover it's just emitting heat asymmetrically, producing a very tiny,
and very inefficient, amount of thrust.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #53  
Old August 4th 15, 09:48 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 752
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/emd...-original.html


I'm still a bit skeptical of this thing. I keep thinking someone will
discover it's just emitting heat asymmetrically, producing a very tiny,
and very inefficient, amount of thrust.


Ditto. The whole "nobody understands how it works" and yet they're
touting ridiculous speeds for the thing just sounds like a con game to
me.


Ayup. I've said for awhile I suspect it's simply some form of a photonic or
ion drive.

How we get from an emdrive to 'warp drive' as I've seen some places makes no
sense to me.


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #54  
Old August 5th 15, 12:01 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

Le 8/4/15 4:48 AM, Greg (Strider) Moore a écrit :
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/emd...-original.html


I'm still a bit skeptical of this thing. I keep thinking someone will
discover it's just emitting heat asymmetrically, producing a very tiny,
and very inefficient, amount of thrust.


Ditto. The whole "nobody understands how it works" and yet they're
touting ridiculous speeds for the thing just sounds like a con game to
me.


Ayup. I've said for awhile I suspect it's simply some form of a
photonic or ion drive.

How we get from an emdrive to 'warp drive' as I've seen some places
makes no sense to me.


Easy to go from emdrive to warp drive. Both technologies belong to sci-fi.


Alain Fournier

  #55  
Old August 5th 15, 02:11 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 752
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

"Alain Fournier" wrote in message ...

Le 8/4/15 4:48 AM, Greg (Strider) Moore a écrit :
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/08/emd...-original.html


I'm still a bit skeptical of this thing. I keep thinking someone will
discover it's just emitting heat asymmetrically, producing a very tiny,
and very inefficient, amount of thrust.


Ditto. The whole "nobody understands how it works" and yet they're
touting ridiculous speeds for the thing just sounds like a con game to
me.


Ayup. I've said for awhile I suspect it's simply some form of a
photonic or ion drive.

How we get from an emdrive to 'warp drive' as I've seen some places
makes no sense to me.


Easy to go from emdrive to warp drive. Both technologies belong to sci-fi.



True, but this is more like the Impulse Engines on the Enterprise than the
Warp Drive.

"I'm givin' them all she's got Captain, but I can't get more than 1.2
Newtons out of the EM drive..."


Alain Fournier


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #56  
Old November 3rd 15, 06:44 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Posts: 687
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

In a new round of testing, NASA confirms yet again that the 'impossible'
EMdrive thruster works:

"Engineer Roger Shawyer's controversial EM Drive thruster jets back into
relevancy this week, as a team of researchers at NASA's Eagleworks Laboratories
recently completed yet another round of testing on the seemingly impossible
tech. Though no official peer-reviewed lab paper has been published yet, and
NASA institutes strict press release restrictions on the Eagleworks lab these
days, engineer Paul March took to the NASA Spaceflight forum to explain the
group's findings. In essence, by utilizing an improved experimental procedure,
the team managed to mitigate some of the errors from prior tests -- yet still
found signals of unexplained thrust."

See:

https://beta.finance.yahoo.com/news/...230112770.html
  #57  
Old November 30th 15, 08:33 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain[_4_]
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Posts: 314
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 12:44:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
In a new round of testing, NASA confirms yet again that the 'impossible'
EMdrive thruster works:


If the EW Lab can get 100uN of thrust out of their lab setups it would greatly help verification of its "reality", since other NASA venues (such as Glenn) would be able to independently verify the EW Lab work using their own measurement apparatus.

I've speculated elsewhere that a better null test device would also help. i..e. one that is just a cylinder of similar dimension. By removing the conical asymmetry between microwave reflectors, by Shawyer's theory there should be no thrust generated, yet all other factors would remain nearly the same.. Thus if the measurements still yielded "thrust" on what should be a null device, one could then go searching for the source of error. If the measured thrust disappears, well although not proof, that would be another point in favor of Shawyer's results, if not his theory. And would also help validate the experimental set-up.

I for one am glad this work in on-going. I welcome a thorough analysis. Even if it disproves the Shawyer EMDrive! Or should I say ESPECIALLY if it disproves it!

Knowledge gained is knowledge advanced.
  #58  
Old December 1st 15, 03:52 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Posts: 75
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever


Knowledge gained is knowledge advanced.


I had this same concern. A straight tube device does need testing. I figured maybe a traveling wave tube could be the effect.

I made one with stove pipe, stuck a 1.5 Kw magnetron on one end. Sealed it up with endcaps and placed a divider inside to travel. A 15 cm diameter disk with a 10 cm diameter hole at a 0.66 factor down the tube. It was a 3ft long pipe.

My lower limit of detection was one ounce. It showed negative.

People like Varian have been doing ultrahigh waveguide for ages. Then I got to thinking of the waveguide in communication satellites. There is no anomaly force report of any notoriety. I don't know the realm of waveguide to say much other than why is the Sawyer drive so high compared to the drive microwave impingement force.




  #59  
Old December 1st 15, 11:54 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain[_4_]
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Posts: 314
Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 9:52:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
My lower limit of detection was one ounce. It showed negative.


Kudos to you for trying however, at one ounce resolution, you are only sensitive to forces that must exceed 287 milli-Newtons. The EW team is claiming force (thrust) at levels around 50-60 micro-Newtons. So regrettably your test setup isn't sensitive enough to judge one way or another.

This is the crux of the EW dilemma. And why they need to get the measured force increased in order to obtain replication.
  #60  
Old December 2nd 15, 03:37 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default New "impossible" engine works, could change space travel forever


This is the crux of the EW dilemma. And why they need to get the measured force increased in order to obtain replication.



Absolutely agree. A common resolution of repeatable data is still required. The NASA experiment is a first step only.

In my thinking all geometry is a variable for testing. Things like end diameter effects, power level per volume, Distance between ends, and even spinning effect test need doing. Painting the interior to alter surface reflection also. I saw a paper somewhere where the straight tube was claimed to have effects caused by surface signal absorption. A gradient of all variable is required now.

Intuitionally I suspect frame-drag as force is the avenue to defining the scope of variable testing. This is a general relativity theory avenue. If true there might be altitude variation of power. A gradient of gravity. A higher altitude above ground might lower the force.
 




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