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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
On Nov 22, 2:25*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:
| wrote: Doug Freyburger wrote: If humanity colonizes the Ort cloud then speed is much less important. Live there and hop from comet to comet. *All without warp speed or unreasonable shielding. *Solve the radiation problem from fusion plants and it is likely the radiation problem of deep space will be solved in similar fashion. Developing the skill set to mine the chunks of dirty ice may be a pretty huge challenge. It is so bitterly cold out there and metals would shatter in some instances. It might be easier to take the big jump. Though finding life on the other end might be a deal killier in that life in one place may have dire results for life from another. If someone were to invent the warp drive or even a working Bussard ramship I'd agree. *But I think as we gradually explore the solar system the technology needed to colonize the Oort cloud will be developed anyways. *My model needs a lot of steps that are known to be possible. What model do you have for launching and powering a starship? *Large solar arrays in Mercury orbit could power their launch but could not power their deceleration. *That's the fastest option I know of that uses what is known to be possible. decleration? anywhere.... deploy a transhab balloon that would dig in the atmosphere to slow down |
#12
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message ... quoted: "Within our solar system, an extra giant planet, or possibly two, might once have accompanied Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus. Computer models showing how our solar system formed suggested the planets once gravitationally slung one another across space, only settling into their current orbits over the course of billions of years." Who knows how many large objects there are in interstellar space. I suggest that once humans have fusio drives humanity will start moving out into the Ort Cloud. There are so many planet sized bodies out their we will eventually migrate through interstellar space to the clouds around other stars. Why is it assumed humanity will eventually move out into the solar system and colonize distant places? Is this simple logical statement so difficult to see? Which is if we someday learn how to sustain ourselves here on Earth, such colonies won't be needed. And if we...don't learn how to sustain ourselves we won't be around long enough to colonize anything. Either way, we'd better learn that Earth is our home ....till death do us part. Why would anyone in their right minds want to live anywhere else? The Earth is the only oasis in this part of the universe. Earth is heaven, everywhere else is hell. "The Fact that Earth is Heaven Whether Heaven is Heaven or not If not an Affidavit Of that specific Spot Not only must confirm us That it is not for us But that it would affront us To dwell in such a place." s I think most of those clouds overlap to some extent. Similar will have happened when dwarf galaxies have merged into large galaxies. There are supposed to be large black holes in the center of almost every large galaxy. Almost every large galaxy is assembled from many dwarf galaxies. In the process a vast number of huge black holes must have been ejected into intergalatic space. The matter visible in galaxies is the tip of the iceberg. I tend to think that a lot more of it is present than the dark matter advocates suggest. |
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
Jonathan wrote:
Why is it assumed humanity will eventually move out into the solar system and colonize distant places? If we do not leave it is absolutely certain we will go extinct. If we do leave there is the option of evolving out there later. I understand that humanity will eventually go extinct but we are likely to be replaced by the next intelligent species rather like we replaced Home Erectus. Don't leave and our descendents go with the Sun dies. Is this simple logical statement so difficult to see? Which is if we someday learn how to sustain ourselves here on Earth, such colonies won't be needed. And if we...don't learn how to sustain ourselves we won't be around long enough to colonize anything. Either way, we'd better learn that Earth is our home ...till death do us part. False dichotomy. We can do both, either or neither. Why would anyone in their right minds want to live anywhere else? The Earth is the only oasis in this part of the universe. Earth is heaven, everywhere else is hell. An argument to religion then. I offer a better one - If the gods had meant humanity to spread into space they would have given us enough brains to be able to figure out how to do that. They didn't have to give all of that those brains only some of us. |
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
J. Clarke wrote:
says... Doug Freyburger wrote: What model do you have for launching and powering a starship? *Large solar arrays in Mercury orbit could power their launch but could not power their deceleration. *That's the fastest option I know of that uses what is known to be possible. decleration? anywhere.... deploy a transhab balloon that would dig in the atmosphere to slow down What atmosphere? You don't aerobrake a starship. All stars have atmospheres. Since you're coming in at 1% C or better the only way to slow down enough is to use the star to decelerate you. It's an experience that's better seen on the video from the outside than from being there in person. Not even Vorlons survive doing it. |
#16
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
In article , says...
J. Clarke wrote: says... Doug Freyburger wrote: What model do you have for launching and powering a starship? *Large solar arrays in Mercury orbit could power their launch but could not power their deceleration. *That's the fastest option I know of that uses what is known to be possible. decleration? anywhere.... deploy a transhab balloon that would dig in the atmosphere to slow down What atmosphere? You don't aerobrake a starship. All stars have atmospheres. Since you're coming in at 1% C or better the only way to slow down enough is to use the star to decelerate you. It's an experience that's better seen on the video from the outside than from being there in person. Not even Vorlons survive doing it. So what kind of gees are we talking about for this maneuver? |
#17
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
J. Clarke wrote:
says... J. Clarke wrote: says... deploy a transhab balloon that would dig in the atmosphere to slow down What atmosphere? You don't aerobrake a starship. All stars have atmospheres. Since you're coming in at 1% C or better the only way to slow down enough is to use the star to decelerate you. It's an experience that's better seen on the video from the outside than from being there in person. Not even Vorlons survive doing it. So what kind of gees are we talking about for this maneuver? Whatever it takes to vaporize someone like hallerb who doesn't know the difference between coming in at a velocity like planets orbit and at velocities like starships cross interstellar space. I know of a method to accelerate enough for an interstellar mission to be not ridiculous in length - Use power from solar stations orbitting the distance of Mercury. I don't of a method to decelerate at the far end. That was the context that hallerb addressed with aerobraking. |
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Extra Giant Planet May Have Dwelled in Our Solar System
"Doug Freyburger" wrote in message ... Jonathan wrote: Why is it assumed humanity will eventually move out into the solar system and colonize distant places? If we do not leave it is absolutely certain we will go extinct. I don't think that holds up, any distant colony would be highly dependent upon a healthy Earth to survive for the foreseeable future. If you're talking beyond that then it becomes shear guess work. If we do leave there is the option of evolving out there later. The idea is to save the Seven Billion people on Earth. Any 'plan' that leaves all of them, the entire human race ....behind, isn't a plan at all. It's the last flower dying before winter takes over. An epitaph, to no one! I understand that humanity will eventually go extinct I strongly disagree with that conclusion. Life is the most resilient, adaptive and inventive of all. Once established, life can and will overcome just about anything. Remember, when an ecosystem suffers some calamity, the strongest and most inventive are left behind ...to rebuild. Life becomes harder and harder to completely kill off as time goes on. but we are likely to be replaced by the next intelligent species rather like we replaced Home Erectus. Don't leave and our descendants go with the Sun dies. That kind of time span is too far removed to even consider when talking about spending money today. Any project more than five or ten years long, maybe twenty for a desperate problem, is too much to get the kind of support a large scale project needs. Why waste time on some pie-in-the-sky project when it's chances of becoming reality are literally zero? Better to optimize the benefits and the chances of success. Space Solar Power wins on that count by leaps and bounds. Is this simple logical statement so difficult to see? Which is if we someday learn how to sustain ourselves here on Earth, such colonies won't be needed. And if we...don't learn how to sustain ourselves we won't be around long enough to colonize anything. Either way, we'd better learn that Earth is our home ...till death do us part. False dichotomy. We can do both, either or neither. There's plenty of things we can do, but given the enormous amount of time and money needed how likely is it we...will do both? Given the current state of affairs? Why would anyone in their right minds want to live anywhere else? The Earth is the only oasis in this part of the universe. Earth is heaven, everywhere else is hell. An argument to religion then. I offer a better one - It was a statement of fact. The Earth is a thousand times more wondrous and life sustaining than anywhere else we can find. If the gods had meant humanity to spread into space they would have given us enough brains to be able to figure out how to do that. They didn't have to give all of that those brains only some of us. When I look around the universe, the only things I see that qualifies as gods, or a heaven, is right here and with everyone alive. Relatively speaking, of course. s |
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