Well I hope Discovery has a good flight.

It seems to be having problems getting off the ground
even semi-safely. I really don't need to see another
batch of astronauts dying. It seems the dreams of
youth were just so much bunk. The human part of
space is trapped in LEO. The other planets are at
best the most bleak places and the some just
alien and utterly unlivable for any tech I can imagine.

The dogs are in after a night out in their houses and the
snow.............................................. ............................Trig

On Nov 25, 7:14*am, |"
wrote:
It seems to be having problems getting off the ground
even semi-safely. I really don't need to see another
batch of astronauts dying. It seems the dreams of
youth were just so much bunk. The human part of
space is trapped in LEO.

This is demoralizing. But there is still hope that humanity can reach
beyond LEO.

The other planets are at
best the most bleak places and the some just
alien and utterly unlivable for any tech I can imagine.
...Trig

James Nicoll had an interesting blog:
http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/2766780.html
"Personally I find the modern Solar System a richer and more
interesting place that the Solar System as it was imagined in the
1960s and 1970s but I know I am probably in a minority here."
and
"Note that I was talking about the 1960s and 1970s, when models of the
Solar System hit a nadir of tedium; nothing but radiation-soaked
rocks, a hell hole world, some gas giants and Earth."

For example, a few decades ago we believed the moon drier than a bone.
Then Chandrayaan 1 and LRO found ice deposits at the poles. Cassini,
Galileo and other probes have revealed amazing things about our gas
giants and their moons.

As a kid I liked to imagine alien plants and animals on Mars and
Venus. I would have never guessed that Europa was a better candidate
for being home to an eco system.

I agree with Nicoll, the modern Solar System is a richer and more
interesting place.

I agree with Nicoll, the modern Solar System is a richer and more
interesting place.

This applies to the whole Galaxy - in the 60s before the space program the
standard Astronomy text had the moons in the solar system depicted as
uninteresting hunks of rock, our moon had no resources, planetary formation
was not understood but it was certain that very few stars had planets. One
of the professors did original work on determining that we live in the arm
of a spiral galaxy. I have a 1960s text which it's interesting to re-read
now. Of course the other problem is the new version shows a much more
interesting universe - but prides itself in the Intro on removing all the
problems that required Calculus to solve - we now live in a richer but also
somewhat dumber world.


Val Kraut

On Nov 28, 5:53*am, "Val Kraut" wrote:
I agree with Nicoll, the modern Solar System is a richer and more
interesting place.

This applies to the whole Galaxy - in the 60s before the space program the
standard Astronomy text had the moons in the solar system depicted as
uninteresting hunks of rock, our moon had no resources, planetary formation
was not understood but it was certain that very few stars had planets. One
of the professors did original work on determining that we live in the arm
of a spiral galaxy. I have a 1960s text which it's interesting to re-read
now.

Some of the most exciting discoveries are anomalies that trash our
earlier models. Generations ago it was the precession of Mercury
thumbing it's nose at Newtonian mechanics. Today we see stars orbiting
their galaxies at the wrong speeds. I'm hoping when we learn what dark
matter is, it'll be a paradigm change rivaling Einstein's upheaval of
Newtonian mechanics.

Of course the other problem is the new version shows a much more
interesting universe - but prides itself in the Intro on removing all the
problems that required Calculus to solve - we now live in a richer but also
somewhat dumber world.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Val Kraut

It was interesting watching October Sky. The life of Homer Hickam
portrayed in the movie was similar to mine. Grew up in a mining town
where most everybody had two parents. No one lived on welfare. At
school you sat and listened to the teacher. Sometimes we stole our
parents booze & cigarettes but there was no meth, heroine, or crack.

Now a lot of high school kids don't know their times tables, much less
long division. Calculus and trig? Forget it. Even though our
technology is more advanced, we no longer have what it takes to go to
the moon.

But these things run in cycles. Maybe a generation or two from now our
testicles will grow back.

It was interesting watching October Sky. The life of Homer Hickam
portrayed in the movie was similar to mine. Grew up in a mining town
where most everybody had two parents. No one lived on welfare. At
school you sat and listened to the teacher. Sometimes we stole our
parents booze & cigarettes but there was no meth, heroine, or crack.

Now a lot of high school kids don't know their times tables, much less
long division. Calculus and trig? Forget it. Even though our
technology is more advanced, we no longer have what it takes to go to
the moon.

Started out somewhat similar but on Long Island. Big deal in High School
that some smoked cigarettes, didn't know anyone who drank before college.
When the desk top computers first appeared my initial though was - now the
student has the computational power to work really interesting problems and
now just the one that were simple enough to do the math by hand. Redoing
some courses with that capability would be a real learning experience.
Nope - didn't happen that way. The problems got simpler, some got dropped in
favor of discussion topics - no math at all. And now engineers trust the
pre-packaged software answers without any understanding of the basic
relationships. Real case - an engineer has a vacuum system with 4 pumps. The
standard pumps are 750 liter/min and 1500 l/min. The computer says system
requires 900 l/min. So he orders 4 of the 1500l/min units. But had he looked
at the basic equation he would have realized that simply moving the pumps
closer to the chamber - reduced line length - the 750 l/min pumps would have
been OK. Can't help but wonder how many other cases there are out there.


Val Kraut

On 11/29/2010 4:01 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
It was interesting watching October Sky. The life of Homer Hickam
portrayed in the movie was similar to mine. Grew up in a mining town
where most everybody had two parents. No one lived on welfare. At
school you sat and listened to the teacher. Sometimes we stole our
parents booze& cigarettes but there was no meth, heroine, or crack.

Did you catch the horrible tactical error he makes in talking to Werner
von Braun?
He congratulates him on the Vanguard satellite project. :-D

Pat

" Did you catch the horrible tactical error he makes in talking to Werner
von Braun?
He congratulates him on the Vanguard satellite project. :-D

If you think about it the Vanguard provided something to compare the
Jupiter-C to. The Vanguard mess had to contribute to von Braun being a
legend in his time. I remember my thoughts at the time were something like -
OK the stupid politicians finally let the A team loose and we finally have a
US satellite in orbit.

I remember being told by a teacher that we study History so we don't repeat
the mistakes of the past. I guess that doesn't apply to politicians and
government workers. Vanguard wasn't the last bad decision.


Val Kraut

Pat Flannery wrote:
Val Kraut wrote:

It was interesting watching October Sky ...

Did you catch the horrible tactical error he makes in talking to Werner
von Braun?

That might have actually happened. Even fans of the space program are
not always aware of who works on what project. In retrospect it's
pretty hilarious. Maybe it was deliberate humor at the time. Irony at
it's most artistic.

He congratulates him on the Vanguard satellite project. :-D

It did in fact work out well for von Braun. He got called from working
on ballistic missiles, which he had little long term interest in other
than as a means to an end, to working on space shots, which had been his
long term interest all along.