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A new planet?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 22nd 03, 10:37 PM
Peter Fairbrother
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Default A new planet?

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


--
Peter Fairbrother

  #2  
Old August 23rd 03, 05:00 AM
Gordon D. Pusch
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Default A new planet?

Peter Fairbrother writes:

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


Suppose pigs had wings ???


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'
  #3  
Old August 24th 03, 05:19 AM
Joann Evans
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Default A new planet?

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?

--
Peter Fairbrother


It breaks.

Or if infinitely elastic, sooner or later, it will be stretched close
to/into the Sun. *Then* it breaks.

And that's ignoring what the rotations and atmospheres of both
worlds, are doing to this thing.

Next question?

  #4  
Old August 26th 03, 05:37 AM
Peter Fairbrother
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Default A new planet?

Joann Evans wrote

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


It breaks.


Probably. A tether with controlled drag and winches along it's length would
be better. I was thinking more in terms of a "star trek tractor beam" as a
first approximation.

Or if infinitely elastic, sooner or later, it will be stretched close
to/into the Sun. *Then* it breaks.


You can swing it out of the way of the Sun (and the Earth) above the plane.
Actually as the orbits are slightly inclined you might not even need to.

And that's ignoring what the rotations and atmospheres of both
worlds, are doing to this thing.


Venus's rotation is quite slow, and Mars is lighter. I never said it would
be easy...

However you only (!) have to slow Venus by about 5.2 km/sec and move it 41
Gm away to put Venus at 1AU from the Sun.

It's just a wild thought for now. I don't think you could get Venus to more
than a ~136 Gm (Earth's orbit is 149 Gm, Venus 108 Gm mean) orbit that way
anyway, and even that needs lots of trickery, but I've got more calculations
and thinking to do.


--
Peter Fairbrother

  #5  
Old August 27th 03, 05:23 AM
Joann Evans
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Default A new planet?

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

Joann Evans wrote

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


It breaks.


Probably. A tether with controlled drag and winches along it's length would
be better. I was thinking more in terms of a "star trek tractor beam" as a
first approximation.

Or if infinitely elastic, sooner or later, it will be stretched close
to/into the Sun. *Then* it breaks.


You can swing it out of the way of the Sun (and the Earth) above the plane.


Much easier said than done....

Actually as the orbits are slightly inclined you might not even need to.


True, but as I noted, it may still come close enough.

And that's ignoring what the rotations and atmospheres of both
worlds, are doing to this thing.


Venus's rotation is quite slow, and Mars is lighter. I never said it would
be easy...


Well, it's going to be anchored somehow, yes?

However you only (!) have to slow Venus by about 5.2 km/sec and move it 41
Gm away to put Venus at 1AU from the Sun.


Umm, there's already a planet that orbits at that distance....

And keeping them at different parts of the same orbit will not be
that easy. Even if you could then tilt the plane of Venus' orbit at 90
degrees to Earth, it's asking for long range trouble.

Besides, it's got enough greenhouse gases to stay comfortable, even
farther out.

It's just a wild thought for now. I don't think you could get Venus to more
than a ~136 Gm (Earth's orbit is 149 Gm, Venus 108 Gm mean) orbit that way
anyway, and even that needs lots of trickery, but I've got more calculations
and thinking to do.

--
Peter Fairbrother



Yeah, well, *my* favorite fantasy is a wormhole or something similar,
to siphon much of Venus' atmosphere over to Mars, and my chances might
be about the same as yours.....

  #6  
Old August 27th 03, 05:24 AM
Jim McCauley
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Default A new planet?


"Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
...
Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


Google back to my post here earlier this year regarding a "jumprope"
connecting Phobos and Deimos. Analogous mechanics here, but way more huge
in scale. An attachment of this scale would have to be elastic to some
degree, but to make the sun play jumprope with two planets, the elasticity
would have to be reasonably bounded.

Materials?

Jim McCauley


  #7  
Old August 30th 03, 02:40 AM
Anthony Q. Bachler
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Default A new planet?

Umm, actually you have your orbital mechanics mixed up. You have to speed
Venus up in order to get it to shift to a higher orbit, an orbit in which it
will have a lower velocity ( assuming a stable orbit) but a higher energy
state.

BTW hello all, I was busy for awhile on a project.



--
Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to
heaven. --Shak

"I can picture a world without war, a world without hate. And I see us
attacking that world, because they'd never expect it "

I'm certainly no more materialistic than the next guy, but to live in this
world one needs certain material things like food, shelter, and a college
fund for ones daughter. So who amongst you may judge me for doing what is
necessary to meet those needs?

"Yea, all israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they
might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the
oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have
sinned against him." Daniel 9-11

"Peter Fairbrother" wrote in message
...
Joann Evans wrote

Peter Fairbrother wrote:

Suppose you joined Mars and Venus together with a big elastic band?


It breaks.


Probably. A tether with controlled drag and winches along it's length

would
be better. I was thinking more in terms of a "star trek tractor beam" as a
first approximation.

Or if infinitely elastic, sooner or later, it will be stretched close
to/into the Sun. *Then* it breaks.


You can swing it out of the way of the Sun (and the Earth) above the

plane.
Actually as the orbits are slightly inclined you might not even need to.

And that's ignoring what the rotations and atmospheres of both
worlds, are doing to this thing.


Venus's rotation is quite slow, and Mars is lighter. I never said it would
be easy...

However you only (!) have to slow Venus by about 5.2 km/sec and move it 41
Gm away to put Venus at 1AU from the Sun.

It's just a wild thought for now. I don't think you could get Venus to

more
than a ~136 Gm (Earth's orbit is 149 Gm, Venus 108 Gm mean) orbit that way
anyway, and even that needs lots of trickery, but I've got more

calculations
and thinking to do.


--
Peter Fairbrother


 




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