A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Science
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why send latest Mars Rovers?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old January 26th 04, 01:20 PM
Jan C. Vorbrüggen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Jorge,

Viking cost $972 million in then-year dollars, or about $2.4 billion in
today's dollars, for two orbiters and two landers.


is there a handy spreadsheet or somesuch you've got that does the then-year-
to-today's-dollar conversion?

Jan
  #12  
Old January 26th 04, 03:56 PM
Velovich03
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
The pics sure look pretty much the same. There were rocks there 25
years ago and sure enough, they're still there


Have the rovers all landed in the same place?

If not, then ask youself this:

If you live in the Midwestern US, do you *really* expect the ENTIRE planet
Earth to be just like your piece of Ohio?

The truth usually points to itself.

This isn't an island, it's not a new continent, it si a PLANET. It is HUGE.
And the rovers (three by the US, so far) are landing in different places, none
of which are where Viking set it's landers at. That is FIVE comepltely
different places. Viking was able to photograph a few miles distant, but take
samples only within a few feet. the Rovers aren't going more than a few hundred
yards from their starting point.

Imagine trying to describe a place when you only have pictures from orbit
and samplings from less area than the size of a dozen football fields.

Could you *really* describe this place, accurately, with that little
information?


  #13  
Old January 26th 04, 11:30 PM
Andrew Gray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

In article , Jan C. Vorbrüggen wrote:
Jorge,

Viking cost $972 million in then-year dollars, or about $2.4 billion in
today's dollars, for two orbiters and two landers.


is there a handy spreadsheet or somesuch you've got that does the then-year-
to-today's-dollar conversion?


Jorge, I believe, has many shiny spreadsheets...

http://www.eh.net/hmit/ may be of some interest to you; not only does it
have the gadget in question, it does several similar things and has
explanatory notes...

[The problem that does often crop up, though, is when costs are given
over a long period and not noted - I was playing around with Saturn V
costs a little while back, where they were given independent of year -
and $1 (FY65) is around $1.75 (FY75) or so... so take pinches of salt
as needed]

--
-Andrew Gray

  #14  
Old January 27th 04, 12:58 AM
Paul F. Dietz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Christopher M. Jones wrote:

What it means is simple. Ask yourself, how many people
are starving *to death* in the US right now? Very, very
few. How many people are really starving to the point
of serious medical effects due to malnurishment? Very,
very few.


Actually, more than you would think.

They are suffering from anorexia, not unavailability of food.

Paul
  #15  
Old January 27th 04, 05:32 AM
Jorge R. Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Andrew Gray wrote in
:

In article , Jan C. Vorbrüggen wrote:
Jorge,

Viking cost $972 million in then-year dollars, or about $2.4 billion
in today's dollars, for two orbiters and two landers.


is there a handy spreadsheet or somesuch you've got that does the
then-year- to-today's-dollar conversion?


Jorge, I believe, has many shiny spreadsheets...


Yes, indeedy... my favorite source is the government itself:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...s/hist10z1.xls

I use the GDP (chained) price index. There are lots of different indices
and the arguments between them can get pretty religious. I use this one
because it's available for all the years I want (including the oft-ignored
Transition Quarter), and because it's the index the government uses as the
basis for "constant dollar" R&D outlays. And it's in handy-dandy Excel
format, so I can just cut-n-paste the table into my spreadsheets and use
it.

Other spreadsheets can be downloaded he
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget...eadsheets.html

Keep an eye out for the 2005 budget; it's due out in a week or so.

[The problem that does often crop up, though, is when costs are given
over a long period and not noted - I was playing around with Saturn V
costs a little while back, where they were given independent of year -
and $1 (FY65) is around $1.75 (FY75) or so... so take pinches of salt
as needed]


You can fudge it for short programs, or programs during periods of low
inflation. But it's a big problem for programs like Viking, which spanned
several years of high inflation (and to top it off, the landings occurred
during the TQ).

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
  #16  
Old January 27th 04, 07:26 PM
Ool
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in message ...
Christopher M. Jones wrote:


What it means is simple. Ask yourself, how many people
are starving *to death* in the US right now? Very, very
few. How many people are really starving to the point
of serious medical effects due to malnurishment? Very,
very few.


Actually, more than you would think.


They are suffering from anorexia, not unavailability of food.


Actually malnourishment isn't undernourishment. Lots of people die
before their time because of *mal*nourishment because the stuff that's
bad for them tastes better than what their body really needs. Obesity
is the killer of today, not starvation.


Just wanted to mention that. Well, I'm off to Burger King now. I
have a coupon for a two-Whopper meal here...



--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

  #17  
Old February 2nd 04, 07:12 PM
Earl Colby Pottinger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Dre" :

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doc wrote:
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
...I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale

--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |



Now what do you think that mean Henry, since it can be looked upon it
different lights? As an aeronautical engineering student, I am very much

for
space exploration and opening doors for mankind, but I am also doing my bit
and helping today's "starving people", since many of them are in their
predicament because their inherent wealth has been taken and now funds such
missions.


Really? To my knowledge due to the use of science and technology if a person
truly starves to death in the USA or Canada it is considered a major news
story. There are tons of people suffering health problems from eating a
poorly balanced diet but how often have you seen anyone in N.A. who looks
like the children the aid agencies are
always asking money for?

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time?
http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
  #18  
Old February 2nd 04, 08:14 PM
rick++
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

The main mission this time is to learn how water shaped Mars
from direct examination of the surface.
The three orbiters since 1998 (including the new Euro one) have had
high enough resolution to see many water-related structures on Mars.
These include channels and layering. The Vikings were not specifically
designed for water evidence. The pathfinder was an engineering prototype
to test new landing and mobility technology. The new rovers add more
useful science instruments and greater travel range (once they work!!!).

Two rovers at the same time allow (1) save on engineering design costs,
(2) hope at least one works, since mars missions have a 2/3rds failure rate.
(3) Because they are on opposite sides of the planet, you can be running
one in the sunlight, while the other is sleeping, thereby leveraging
communication and earth facility overhead.
  #19  
Old February 5th 04, 01:21 AM
Paul F. Dietz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:

Really? To my knowledge due to the use of science and technology if a person
truly starves to death in the USA or Canada it is considered a major news
story.


Many americans starve each year. They suffer from anorexia. Most do not
create headlines when they die.

Anorexia is distressingly common in the elderly, btw.

Paul
  #20  
Old February 7th 04, 07:10 PM
Earl Colby Pottinger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Paul F. Dietz" :

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:

Really? To my knowledge due to the use of science and technology if a
person truly starves to death in the USA or Canada it is considered a
major news story.


Many americans starve each year. They suffer from anorexia. Most do not
create headlines when they die.

Anorexia is distressingly common in the elderly, btw.


But that was from thier own choice of actions. Not because they were taxed
to the point of not being able to feed themselves. Also with the elderly it
most often is because they choose the wrong foods or don't know where to go
to get help if they are low income.

The original claims was the cost of sending the Mars rovers was causing
people to starve to death here on earth.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delta-Like Fan On Mars Suggests Ancient Rivers Were Persistent Ron Baalke Science 0 November 13th 03 09:06 PM
If You Thought That Was a Close View of Mars, Just Wait (Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter) Ron Baalke Science 0 September 23rd 03 10:25 PM
NASA Selects UA 'Phoenix' Mission To Mars Ron Baalke Science 0 August 4th 03 10:48 PM
Students and Teachers to Explore Mars Ron Baalke Science 0 July 18th 03 07:18 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.