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Why send latest Mars Rovers?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 23rd 04, 10:12 PM
Doc
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Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
The pics sure look pretty much the same. There were rocks there 25
years ago and sure enough, they're still there. And no sightings of
Marvin the Martian yet.

I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?
  #2  
Old January 25th 04, 02:34 AM
Jim McCauley
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Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Doc" wrote in message
m...
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?


These rovers do real geology. The Vikings were looking primarily for direct
evidence of current life. The MERs are looking for geological evidence of
current or former life.

I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


A small fraction of the Viking missions, in constant dollars. I vaguely
remember one sixth or less, but I could be off either way.


Jim McCauley


  #3  
Old January 25th 04, 03:53 AM
Henry Spencer
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Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

In article ,
Doc wrote:
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
...I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale

--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |
  #4  
Old January 25th 04, 10:51 AM
spaceprojects.tk
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Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 02:34:46 GMT, "Jim McCauley"
wrote:

"Doc" wrote in message
om...
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?


These rovers do real geology. The Vikings were looking primarily for direct
evidence of current life. The MERs are looking for geological evidence of
current or former life.

I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


A small fraction of the Viking missions, in constant dollars. I vaguely
remember one sixth or less, but I could be off either way.


Jim McCauley


Price for both rovers is about $800 million, a real bargin for 2
missions with this much potential science return.

And you are correct Jim. The VIkings were primarly biological
missions, while Pathfinder was simply an engineering demomstration
vehicle. The MER's are the 1st "geologists" on Mars......

http://spaceprojects.tk

  #5  
Old January 25th 04, 03:56 PM
Dre
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Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?


"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doc wrote:
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
...I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale

--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |



Now what do you think that mean Henry, since it can be looked upon it
different lights? As an aeronautical engineering student, I am very much for
space exploration and opening doors for mankind, but I am also doing my bit
and helping today's "starving people", since many of them are in their
predicament because their inherent wealth has been taken and now funds such
missions.


  #6  
Old January 25th 04, 04:04 PM
Dre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Doc" wrote in message
m...
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
The pics sure look pretty much the same. There were rocks there 25
years ago and sure enough, they're still there. And no sightings of
Marvin the Martian yet.

I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


The photos may look similar, but the scientific work
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/science/
going on behind the beautiful scenes is a first. By learning more about
martian environment, we'll have more information available to formulate a
plan on the history of Mars and how it can benefit us today. Spirit and
Opportunity are not about pretty pictures, they are about expanding our
scientific knowledge - they are paving the way for mankind, since we cannot
go there to explore right now. They are doing an important work.


  #7  
Old January 25th 04, 05:49 PM
Brent Anderson
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Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?


"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale


That is my new "sig" file in all my chat groups!

Brent

  #8  
Old January 25th 04, 08:06 PM
Jorge R. Frank
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Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Jim McCauley" wrote in
news:aXFQb.145633$na.236073@attbi_s04:

"Doc" wrote in message
m...

I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


A small fraction of the Viking missions, in constant dollars. I
vaguely remember one sixth or less, but I could be off either way.


Doc hasn't been looking hard. Just about every news story I've seen on this
mission mentions the total price tag ($820 million for both landers).

Viking cost $972 million in then-year dollars, or about $2.4 billion in
today's dollars, for two orbiters and two landers.


--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.
  #9  
Old January 25th 04, 09:13 PM
El Guapo
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Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Dre" wrote in message
...

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doc wrote:
Among all the hoopla surrounding the latest Mars explorer, what I
haven't heard is what this one will do that the previous ones didn't?
...I also haven't seen a pricetag on the things. Anybody?


"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale

--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry

Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |



Now what do you think that mean Henry, since it can be looked upon it
different lights? As an aeronautical engineering student, I am very much

for
space exploration and opening doors for mankind, but I am also doing my

bit
and helping today's "starving people", since many of them are in their
predicament because their inherent wealth has been taken and now funds

such
missions.


What starving people have had their wealth taken from them in order to fund
the Mars exploration program?

  #10  
Old January 26th 04, 04:01 AM
Christopher M. Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Why send latest Mars Rovers?

"Dre" wrote in message ...
"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
"Let those who complain that too much money is being spent on abstract
knowledge while people are starving remember this: The alternative to
knowledge is savagery. Their very existence as stowaways on the voyage
of civilization is owing to advances in science which permit some to
live without doing their share of the work. Let them be tolerant, then,
lest by encumbering the useful ones they destroy the thing which keeps
them alive." -- George Ellery Hale


Now what do you think that mean Henry, since it can be looked upon it
different lights? As an aeronautical engineering student, I am very much for
space exploration and opening doors for mankind, but I am also doing my bit
and helping today's "starving people", since many of them are in their
predicament because their inherent wealth has been taken and now funds such
missions.


What it means is simple. Ask yourself, how many people
are starving *to death* in the US right now? Very, very
few. How many people are really starving to the point
of serious medical effects due to malnurishment? Very,
very few. Ply the streets my friend, look at the
poor and the indigent. Are they well and truly
starving? Are they hollow cheeked? Do their bones
show clearly under their skin because they have no
fat and no muscle? You will find that, in fact, they
are not truly starving but merely, perhaps, on
occasion hungry, if that. Indeed, it is not unusual
to find a poor or homeless individual who is fat.

Why is this so? Why are there so few deaths due to
malnurishment in the western world (as there had been
in abundance *everywhere* throughout human history)?
Is it because of some greater compasion for the
needy? No. It is due primarily to greed, and
research, and invention. All those "wasteful"
enterprises which the "truly compasionate" would
have us abandon. It is due to things like the one
time rich man's toy, the automobile. It is due to
things like the frivolous, blue sky interest in
the genetics of species. It is due to the greed
of farmers and agribusinesses wanting to make
higher profits. That's how we ended up with
tractors and refrigeration and pesticides and
high-yield crops and efficient irrigation and all
those upteen kajillion things that add up to cheap
food and an effective end to starvation.

Here's another excercise for you, go to a grocery
store, price a 25 lb. bag of flour or rice. Ask
how in the world anyone, even the homeless, could
really be "starving" in today's world. But then
again, you already learned in your previous
excercise that they aren't.
 




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