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The universal hologram
I will catch a lot of muck on this summise, but bare with me.
If I was blind folded, on a rotating platform, with guns in different directions and distances, what might I mistakenly assume?????????????(I am unaware of rotation) This is important to keep in mind. Two firings at different times might seem to come from the same direction, or opposite if they occur at different distances. Now to astronomy! Our galaxy revolves, and moves through the universe, and therefore a similar optical slight of hand occurs! Something which we '0bserve' now at (say) due north, might well be in another direction entirely, according to it's distance from us, and our circular motion. Two bodies which appear to be in the same direction from us, may be nowhere near it (and never were) Maybe the universal "picture' which we see, is a total hologram, due to the motions of the bodies (us and the "observed") and the finite properties of light Jim G |
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The universal hologram
On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 9:01:29 AM UTC-5, jgreen... wrote:
I will catch a lot of muck on this summise, but bare with me. If I was blind folded, on a rotating platform, with guns in different directions and distances, what might I mistakenly assume?????????????(I am unaware of rotation) This is important to keep in mind. Two firings at different times might seem to come from the same direction, or opposite if they occur at different distances. Now to astronomy! Our galaxy revolves, and moves through the universe, and therefore a similar optical slight of hand occurs! Something which we '0bserve' now at (say) due north, might well be in another direction entirely, according to it's distance from us, and our circular motion. Two bodies which appear to be in the same direction from us, may be nowhere near it (and never were) Maybe the universal "picture' which we see, is a total hologram, due to the motions of the bodies (us and the "observed") and the finite properties of light Jim G Whenever the Milky Way spins north and south become east and west. |
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The universal hologram
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The universal hologram
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 12:21:40 AM UTC+9:30, Mark Earnest wrote:
On Thursday, July 19, 2018 at 9:01:29 AM UTC-5, jgreen... wrote: I will catch a lot of muck on this summise, but bare with me. If I was blind folded, on a rotating platform, with guns in different directions and distances, what might I mistakenly assume?????????????(I am unaware of rotation) This is important to keep in mind. Two firings at different times might seem to come from the same direction, or opposite if they occur at different distances. Now to astronomy! Our galaxy revolves, and moves through the universe, and therefore a similar optical slight of hand occurs! Something which we '0bserve' now at (say) due north, might well be in another direction entirely, according to it's distance from us, and our circular motion. Two bodies which appear to be in the same direction from us, may be nowhere near it (and never were) Maybe the universal "picture' which we see, is a total hologram, due to the motions of the bodies (us and the "observed") and the finite properties of light Jim G Whenever the Milky Way spins north and south become east and west. Yes, but if light speed was infinite, two galaxies which seem to us to lie in the same direction, may actually be opposite (or anywhere) |
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The universal hologram
On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 23:27:46 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 3:48:16 AM UTC+9:30, Barry Schwarz wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I will catch a lot of muck on this summise, but bare with me. If I was blind folded, on a rotating platform, with guns in different directions and distances, what might I mistakenly assume?????????????(I am unaware of rotation) This is important to keep in mind. Two firings at different times might seem to come from the same direction, or opposite if they occur at different distances. Now to astronomy! Our galaxy revolves, and moves through the universe, and therefore a similar optical slight of hand occurs! Something which we '0bserve' now at (say) due north, might well be in another direction entirely, according to it's distance from us, and our circular motion. Two bodies which appear to be in the same direction from us, may be nowhere near it (and never were) Maybe the universal "picture' which we see, is a total hologram, due to the motions of the bodies (us and the "observed") and the finite properties of light It's not a hologram but except for some very nearby objects, nothing we see is currently where we see it. Everything we see is time delayed and each object has its own delay. The result is a very massive optical illusion. Consider a telescope observer looking at the Great Red Spot very near the edge of Jupiter's disk. It took the light over 32 minutes to get to the observer. In that time, Jupiter rotated almost 6% of it's day so the storm probably rotated beyond the edge of the limb and is currently no longer visible from Earth. Similarly, in that time Jupiter moved 2.5*10^7 meters along its orbit. As viewed from Earth, that is 8 arc seconds and Jupiter is currently not even in the viewing field of the scope. The bottom line is we do not see the objects at their current location, only the light they emitted at a previous location. In many (most?) cases, the gap between emission and observation is eons. -- Remove del for email Look further! Galaxies which appear to be in the same direction, may be opposite (or anywhere) depending on how far we rotate as the light from each travels here. I would dearly love a geek (I am fairly computer clueless) to model this-- Milky Way rotating, with incoming light from galaxies at different distances. Where would they "seem" to be, as to where they really are? Our rotation is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how far the object moved in the time it took the light to reach us. Consider two objects, one a light-hour away and the other two light-hours away. If we observe the closer object occult the further one at midnight, then we rotated 15 degrees while the light from the first traveled and 30 degrees while the light from the second traveled. That has nothing to do with the current location of the objects. All we know is that object one was at a specific RA-Dec at 11PM and object two was at the same RA-Dec at 10PM. Now let us double the rotation rate of the Earth. Everything in the above discussion remains the same except that we have rotated 30 and 60 degrees while the light was traveling. This has no effect on the two objects. If the two objects were orbiting the Earth at the speed of light, then in the time it took light to reach us each object would have moved 1 radian around its orbit. (In one hour object one would have moved an arc length of 1 light-hour. Since the arc length equals the radius, the angle is one radian.) The same for object two. If they were orbiting in the same plane and moving in opposite directions, then at the time we observed the occultation, the two objects are actually 114 degrees apart. So yes, when we observe two objects that appear close, at the time we make the observation they could actually be on opposite sides of us. But this has nothing to do with our rotation, only with the time delay and the actual motion of the objects. -- Remove del for email |
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The universal hologram
On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 11:07:59 PM UTC+9:30, Barry Schwarz wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 23:27:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 3:48:16 AM UTC+9:30, Barry Schwarz wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: I will catch a lot of muck on this summise, but bare with me. If I was blind folded, on a rotating platform, with guns in different directions and distances, what might I mistakenly assume?????????????(I am unaware of rotation) This is important to keep in mind. Two firings at different times might seem to come from the same direction, or opposite if they occur at different distances. Now to astronomy! Our galaxy revolves, and moves through the universe, and therefore a similar optical slight of hand occurs! Something which we '0bserve' now at (say) due north, might well be in another direction entirely, according to it's distance from us, and our circular motion. Two bodies which appear to be in the same direction from us, may be nowhere near it (and never were) Maybe the universal "picture' which we see, is a total hologram, due to the motions of the bodies (us and the "observed") and the finite properties of light It's not a hologram but except for some very nearby objects, nothing we see is currently where we see it. Everything we see is time delayed and each object has its own delay. The result is a very massive optical illusion. Consider a telescope observer looking at the Great Red Spot very near the edge of Jupiter's disk. It took the light over 32 minutes to get to the observer. In that time, Jupiter rotated almost 6% of it's day so the storm probably rotated beyond the edge of the limb and is currently no longer visible from Earth. Similarly, in that time Jupiter moved 2.5*10^7 meters along its orbit. As viewed from Earth, that is 8 arc seconds and Jupiter is currently not even in the viewing field of the scope. The bottom line is we do not see the objects at their current location, only the light they emitted at a previous location. In many (most?) cases, the gap between emission and observation is eons. -- Remove del for email Look further! Galaxies which appear to be in the same direction, may be opposite (or anywhere) depending on how far we rotate as the light from each travels here. I would dearly love a geek (I am fairly computer clueless) to model this-- Milky Way rotating, with incoming light from galaxies at different distances. Where would they "seem" to be, as to where they really are? Our rotation is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is how far the object moved in the time it took the light to reach us. Consider two objects, one a light-hour away and the other two light-hours away. If we observe the closer object occult the further one at midnight, then we rotated 15 degrees while the light from the first traveled and 30 degrees while the light from the second traveled. That has nothing to do with the current location of the objects. All we know is that object one was at a specific RA-Dec at 11PM and object two was at the same RA-Dec at 10PM. Now let us double the rotation rate of the Earth. Everything in the above discussion remains the same except that we have rotated 30 and 60 degrees while the light was traveling. This has no effect on the two objects. If the two objects were orbiting the Earth at the speed of light, then in the time it took light to reach us each object would have moved 1 radian around its orbit. (In one hour object one would have moved an arc length of 1 light-hour. Since the arc length equals the radius, the angle is one radian.) The same for object two. If they were orbiting in the same plane and moving in opposite directions, then at the time we observed the occultation, the two objects are actually 114 degrees apart. So yes, when we observe two objects that appear close, at the time we make the observation they could actually be on opposite sides of us. But this has nothing to do with our rotation, only with the time delay and the actual motion of the objects. -- Remove del for email But motion is relative. We are sure that the Milkyway is turning. An observer on a distant galaxy would be mistaken as to our actual position (in the universe). So would all others, and their positions ref all others. Therefore I contend that the view we see, and the 'knowledge' that we gain from it, is totally morphed (perhaps a better term than hologram. Jim G |
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