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#21
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Henry Spencer wrote:
In article , Brian Thorn wrote: It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it. Indeed so, out of economic interests, assorted grievances with the USA, and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to that of Europe. Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all. -- Scott Lowther, Engineer Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address |
#22
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Henry Spencer wrote:
In article , Scott Lowther wrote: It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. Wow... way to be HORRIBLY wrong there, Henry. Slavery remained a common enoguh state of things until quite recently, and still goes on in many places. Name three countries where it's *legal*. Sudan, China, North Korea. Unless, of course, you think that "the rest of the world" really only means European civilization... and even then you're wrong. I'm no math wiz, but I'm pretty sure 1865 came *before* 1945... You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic. Ask ther Israelies. They have good memories of such things. If you're including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts. Wow, talk about a non-sequitur. Since when have rational people considered temporary drafts in time of war to be the moral or technical equivalent to slavery? -- Scott Lowther, Engineer Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address |
#23
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote: Since when have rational people considered temporary drafts in time of war to be the moral or technical equivalent to slavery? Ask the urban poor who rioted en masse to protest conscription during the American Civil War about that one. -- Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D. Reformed Aerospace Engineer Columbia Loss FAQ: http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html |
#24
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
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#25
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote: and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to that of Europe. Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all. There was very little European about the way the CSA worked, if you look closely; the resemblance was superficial. Both had a strong class structure, but the two structures weren't at all similar. Notably, in Europe, the nobility had ties to the peasants as well as vice-versa. The way Southern aristocrats treated their slaves was much closer to the way Northern factory owners treated their machinery -- e.g., buying and selling it whenever convenient -- than to the way European aristocrats (usually) treated their vassals. -- MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. | |
#26
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Andrew Gray wrote: Of course, there was all the even stranger legislation in the ealry half of the c19th, when people were banning the trade, but not slavery, or vice versa. Or abolishing it in the home country but not in colonies abroad. Most of that odd-sounding legislation came from abolitionists who lacked the political clout to meet the problem head-on, but did have enough to nibble away at its edges, in hopes of curtailing the worst practices, limiting slavery's growth, and eroding its general political support. (Nasty though slavery was in general, the trans-Atlantic slave trade was easily its ugliest part. The home country typically had few slaves and much anti-slavery activism, while the colonies had extensive slave-based agriculture and fewer abolitionists. And so forth.) You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic. If you're including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts... I believe he would be referring to the significant amounts of slave labour used in Germany... Oh, that was pretty obvious, but it strikes me as a fallacious argument, since slave labor for the government was common in all nations in that war, and since. That's not usually deemed to be "slavery", since it lacks some of the customary features of slavery and is usually dressed up in patriotic rhetoric. ("Those Japanese-Americans just can't be trusted.") -- MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. | |
#27
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
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#28
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
From Chris Jones:
(Henry Spencer) writes: Name three countries where it's *legal*. Of course it goes on illegally, including (a little bit) in the US. But if (somewhat dim) memory serves, at the time the issue was decided in the US, the only other substantial country where slavery remained legal was Brazil, and it finally joined the civilized world in the 1880s. Russia. I would consider the serfs to be slaves, and they weren't liberated until the 1880s. Which ALMOST ties this to space... Well, there's always the Charlie Smith story. (If anyone knows of a website with a photo, I'd like to see it. I have a book with a photo of him with his son that makes for a powerful image.) ~ CT |
#29
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Brian Thorn wrote:
It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it. By the way, the US desire for elimination of slavery can be traced all the way back to the the very beginning of the country - in the Declaration of Independence (Jefferson's draft). ~ CT |
#30
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Henry Spencer wrote:
In article , Scott Lowther wrote: and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to that of Europe. Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all. There was very little European about the way the CSA worked, if you look closely; the resemblance was superficial. But still far closer to the Euros than the northern USA. Both had a strong class structure, but the two structures weren't at all similar. Notably, in Europe, the nobility had ties to the peasants as well as vice-versa. What, like the Czar and the serfs? Yeah, that was WAAAAAAAAY different from the master and slave relationship in the CSA... -- Scott Lowther, Engineer Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address |
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