Venus instead of an 18 billion per year subsidy for wealthy cotton growers

Actually it's not istead of, but more likely at 0.01% of, as even 1%
of 18 billion is a whopping 180 million per year, of which I'd take
that in a flash.

This is also instead our of messing up another good thing by
terriforming Venus (of which we know little if anything about doing,
at least not without our inflicting far more harm than good), of how
about just dealing with what's already there, as in 625°K nighttime at
the elevation of 5 km.

Under a pressure of 75+ bar, 625°K is toasty but actually it isn't all
that bad, thereby folks like yourself certainly do not require all
that much O2%, although a tonne of refrigeration could certainly
improve upon your personal environment. Though why intentionally
contaminate another world with human arrogance and utter stupidity?

This perception or perhaps distortion of limitation tied to our O2
concentration needing 21% is simply not the case while surviving under
such pressure, as I've got perfectly good records of actively working
humans surviving quite nicely on 4% O2, I believe that was starting in
at 5 bar absolute. The more the pressure the less O2% requirement and,
that's a well proven fact. There's many other examples of significant
other life surviving at extremely low O2, that's including several
examples surviving within a relatively high CO2 environment and/or of
sulphur dioxide, that's not even to mention deep sea life.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-air.htm


*Energy; the holy grail of life as we know it:*
As for acquiring energy certainly isn't a difficult task, at least not
on Venus.
On Venus there's more CO2 density and pressure differential per
vertical km than you can shake a flaming stick at. That's a whole lot
of highly worthwhile vertical kinetic energy on steroids. How many GW
would you like?

BTW; having a source of relatively thick or dense CO2, unless you're
an absolute Borg moron, makes for a rather terrific refrigerant and/or
heat-exchanging medium and, obtaining R-256 of thermal isolation from
merely conduction mode heat is certainly within our grasp, not to
mention the process of CO2--CO/O2 that'll provide all the O2 you
could possibly need, as well as the fuel/energy of the CO component,
more than enough to power-up any rigid airship and for accommodating
those nice lizard folk passengers and crew that are capable of
cruising throughout their crystal clear atmospheric ocean of CO2,
preferably doing such within their season of nighttime and, of mostly
accomplishing this task within the relative calm that's below those
relatively cool nighttime clouds.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/energy-options.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/co2-windpower-03.htm

If there's something that's absolutely negative and so totally
unresolvable about sustaining life on Venus, I'd certainly like to
hear about it. As so far, there's nothing of physics 101 that's
excluding upon what's possible, nor of Darwins' biology 101. Of
course, having a good enough surface image that's depicting of what's
most likely artificial than not is certainly offering yet another
positive consideration, one that's at least as valid as those
justifying the likes of the USS LIBERTY fiasco and of those still
claiming as to have seen all those WMDs, and just look at what all
that's cost us and worse, of where we're headed.

Perhaps instead of super-funding an already surplus US cotton cartel
with another 18 billion dollars per year subsidy, we might actually be
somewhat better off by investing 0.01% of that amount upon improving
relationships with our closest and most Earth like planet. At least
Venus isn't frozen and otherwise thoroughly irradiated to death like
Mars and, Venus literally has if anything way too much energy to burn.

If you must insist upon spending those big bucks, there's always a
lunar space elevator: This following page remains somewhat confusing,
but I believe it's less so than my first space elevator attempt.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

As opposed to extremely long term investing into any Earth based space
elevator:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-edwards-se.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / Discovery of LIFE on Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

This is also instead our of messing up another good thing by
terriforming Venus (of which we know little if anything about doing,
at least not without our inflicting far more harm than good)

How could we damage venus in any fashion?

Even using it as a nuclear dumping ground would not affect anyone... Although I
dont recommend it.

(Hallerb) wrote in message ...

This is also instead our of messing up another good thing by
terriforming Venus (of which we know little if anything about doing,
at least not without our inflicting far more harm than good)

How could we damage venus in any fashion?

Even using it as a nuclear dumping ground would not affect anyone... Although I
dont recommend it.

Since many respected researchers (even of those well documented within
NASA) conclude that Venus wasn't always so hot and nasty, that the
surface once held at least shallow oceans or a few relatively large
ponds and, those same researchers seem to have been stipulating that
the transition of global warming took millions of years, so even if
that warming trend took but a few thousand years, that's certainly
sufficient time for Darwin to kick in, and/or for anyone smart enough
to do something about salvaging their sorry butts. Even a village
idiot, such as myself, should have been capable of putting two and two
together, such as if there were a rapid 1°K upward shift per year
(that's still 420+ years worth), of then utilizing whatever remaining
resources to their advantage (unlike Mars, Venus still has lots of
energy resources).


Here's another respectfully kind thought; creating TRACE-II instead of
any stinking space elevator or of terriforming Venus.

Instead of our badly terraforming good old Venus, or even opting for a
spendy lunar or more so Earth se; how about our configuring and
shipping off an affordable and relatively compact TRACE-II, one that's
outfitted with a few of those solid state 5W lasers and of numerous
single channel photon detectors, being about 1/10th the Magellan
investment and of not 1% the operational overhead. All and all, that's
not even postage for the paper work related to accomplishing any space
elevator, much less terraforming Venus.

Station keeping the TRACE-II at Venus L2 (VL2) is not hardly even
rocket science anymore. Utilizing this instrument as a relay platform
for various communications while the optical features of TRACE-II goes
about imaging the visible portion of the sun and of its coronasphere
is hardly an insignificant opportunity. The CCD camera and associated
optics and filters are well proven, the resolution and range of scan
speed is way more than sufficient, it's entirely proven and best of
all, the original TRACE is about due for a replacement. So, the entire
TRACE team will not have to be retired and, this new vantage point of
VL2 is nearly ideal for accomplish certain tasks that the original
instrument was not only handicapped but much further away. The
TRACE-II could have an even more capable CCD of perhaps 4 times as
much resolution plus being upon average 0.275 AU closer to their
target. That at least 8 fold improvement in solar imaging, not to
mention the other aspects of what TRACE-II could accomplish for
essentially pennies on the dollar.

So, why waste all the time and billions if not trillions trying to
goto places ill suited for humans, especially of such frozen and
irradiated to death locations such as Mars, or of otherwise putting
nearly all of our eggs into one of those horrific space elevators,
when we can simply send off a few complex binary message packets
(local laser area code no less) such as asking "what's up?" or perhaps
"how hot is it?", then monitor for their reply, seems like a whole lot
more bang for the buck or euro and best of all, of not one roasted
astronaut.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/laser-com.htm

Less spendier yet will be of accomplishing the Moon-SAR imaging but,
that's not nearly as much fun as accomplishing any two-way
interplanetary call: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-sar.htm

The lunar space elevator and our NExT CM/ISS perhaps isn't 1% of
accomplishing any Earth based space elevator, but that lunar SE
prospect is still talking in terms of tens of billions. That's
certainly far more than I've got.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / Discovery of LIFE on Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm

"Hallerb" wrote in message
...

How could we damage venus in any fashion?

We could send them your posts.

--
If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC),
please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action
lawsuit
in the works.

"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message ...
"Hallerb" wrote in message
...

How could we damage venus in any fashion?

We could send them your posts.

Thanks for saying that. It needed to be said. Here's something other
that needs to be said. The reason being is if we can somehow stop the
waste of blowing trillions on any ESE, less than .001% of that'll put
us, or at least TRACE-II, at VL2.

GUTH MOON DIRT EXPRESS (GMDE), let there be Flywheels of Tether Energy

Regarding another ESE infomercial from: Bob Munck
"For example, at 18,000 km -- half-way up -- gravity is down to .07 g.
If at that point you can switch from 200 kph rollers to 1000 kph
magnetics, you cut three days from the trip."

If the half way point is 18,000 km, then 36,000 km is certainly right
smack in the middle of Dr. Van Allen's zone of death, of receiving
only 2^3 Sv/year behind 2 g/cm2 and, that's not actually including any
significant solar contributions per say, just the typical environment
+ whatever.

Shielding requirements, such as those currently utilized for the likes
of ISS, for spending any amount of time at the ESE depot are going to
be limited to hours unless you're surrounded by several hundred g/cm2.
I for one would start off at a full meter worth of moon dirt (341
g/cm2), a longer stay (months) might require a habitat surrounded by
as much as 3 meters worth (1023 g/cm2). Per m3 we're at the mass of
3410 kg or 3.41 t/m3. Exactly how much cost and energy effectively
that sort of mass can be delivered via ESE is going to be doable, but
certainly not cheap nor without creating large amounts of CO2.

The energy to accommodate such terrific lifting is potentially
available via tether dipole and, of that energy being stored via
substantial flywheels. Being that the Van Allen zone of death most
likely holds all sorts of electro-magnetic energy potential, there
should not be any shortages of energy (too much if anything).

A 10x10x10 meter ESE abode interior will subsequently require at least
728 m3, 728 * 3.41 = 2482.5 t, that is if you're going for a modest
shield surround density of equal or better than 341 g/m2.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-se-flywheels.htm

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS~GASA / Discovery of LIFE on Venus
LSE UPDATES: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm