We, first loosers for 100 years.

Pat Flannery wrote:
Von Braun was willing to go to sleep anywhere and with anyone providing
the funding was there. :-)

Well, I'm glad HE did it. Would you go to the same lenghts for your
ideals? Can you pull through something similar? Were he an American,
would you feel the same about him?

If the Moon is so important and worthwhile, lets give the private sector
a ten year tax exemption on exploring it and developing new industries
there. I'm sure they'll jump at it. :-)

I agree, as soon as the US claims the Moon and municipalities set up
the utilities :-))
(with your permission I'd like to bow out of this subject, regards HB)

On or about Sat, 27 May 2006 14:42:22 -0400, Rand Simberg made the sensational claim that:
On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:05:25 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
One: Antarctica. Nations can't claim parts of it, but does that mean
that a group of individuals couldn't go there and set up a small
society of their own?

Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.

I don't see how that *wouldn't* apply to space as well.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | Just because something
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | is possible, doesn't
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | mean it can happen

On Sat, 27 May 2006 15:44:36 -0400, in a place far, far away,
LooseChanj made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

On or about Sat, 27 May 2006 14:42:22 -0400, Rand Simberg made the sensational claim that:
On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:05:25 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
One: Antarctica. Nations can't claim parts of it, but does that mean
that a group of individuals couldn't go there and set up a small
society of their own?

Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.

I don't see how that *wouldn't* apply to space as well.

Why would it? The two legal regimes aren't at all the same.

Rand Simberg wrote:



One: Antarctica. Nations can't claim parts of it, but does that mean
that a group of individuals couldn't go there and set up a small
society of their own?



Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.


Why? No nation owns it. I knew some people who worked at science bases
down there, and one of the biggest secrets about the place is that
Antarctica has no drug laws, not being anyone's property.
If you are military personnel, you are subject to military drug laws;
but if you are civilian, no laws apply.

Pat

Hyper wrote:

Pat Flannery wrote:


Von Braun was willing to go to sleep anywhere and with anyone providing
the funding was there. :-)



Well, I'm glad HE did it. Would you go to the same lenghts for your
ideals?


What? Not jump in bed with Hitler? Who knows?

Can you pull through something similar? Were he an American,
would you feel the same about him?



If he were an American, and we lost WW II, and the next you know he was
putting Nazis on the Moon...I might look askance at that, yes.

Pat

On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:20:41 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:



One: Antarctica. Nations can't claim parts of it, but does that mean
that a group of individuals couldn't go there and set up a small
society of their own?



Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.


Why? No nation owns it. I knew some people who worked at science bases
down there, and one of the biggest secrets about the place is that
Antarctica has no drug laws, not being anyone's property.
If you are military personnel, you are subject to military drug laws;
but if you are civilian, no laws apply.

Believe me, if a group of people decided to attempt to establish an
independent government in Antarctica, the rest of the world would come
down on them with millions of feet. No one pays attention to the
current situation because it's just a few scientists in a scientific
base, not a bunch of splitters attempting to form a new nation.

Rand Simberg wrote:

Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.


I don't see how that *wouldn't* apply to space as well.



Why would it? The two legal regimes aren't at all the same.



In fact the international laws regarding Antarctica became the basis for
the treaties on outer space, regarding the Moon in particular:
http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm
Orbital space itself has laws largely based on those of the oceans, with
free transit for all.

Pat

Rand Simberg wrote:

Believe me, if a group of people decided to attempt to establish an
independent government in Antarctica, the rest of the world would come
down on them with millions of feet. No one pays attention to the
current situation because it's just a few scientists in a scientific
base, not a bunch of splitters attempting to form a new nation.



As LooseChanj pointed out, what makes you think the same situation
wouldn't apply to space in general, and the Moon in particular?

pat

On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:39:53 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Yes. They will be subject to *someone's* laws, of an existing state.


I don't see how that *wouldn't* apply to space as well.



Why would it? The two legal regimes aren't at all the same.



In fact the international laws regarding Antarctica became the basis for
the treaties on outer space, regarding the Moon in particular:
http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm

But we didn't sign on to the Moon Treaty, nor did any other
spacefaring nation.

Orbital space itself has laws largely based on those of the oceans, with
free transit for all.

The oceans aren't Antarctica.

On Sat, 27 May 2006 18:43:06 -0400, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:

Believe me, if a group of people decided to attempt to establish an
independent government in Antarctica, the rest of the world would come
down on them with millions of feet. No one pays attention to the
current situation because it's just a few scientists in a scientific
base, not a bunch of splitters attempting to form a new nation.



As LooseChanj pointed out, what makes you think the same situation
wouldn't apply to space in general, and the Moon in particular?

Because space isn't Antarctica. It's a different legal regime.