Very simple question regarding the moon

Hi,

The other evening, I was at a beach side restaurant in Malibu, California.
First piece of news: the sun does not set exactly over the ocean as it
should (we're on the west coast, right?) but rather behind the mountains.
This makes me realize that I'm probably on a segment of the coast facing
south, and that I am not as educated as I thought. Certainly a
disappointment, but I can survive.

Okay, so my date does not get her romantic sunset, but we still enjoy the
ocean and a beautiful moon in the sky. Now, as we discuss the effect of the
moon on tides (it was a first date and we hadn't kissed yet, thus the
conversation topic), we come to a horrible realization: we have no idea
where the moon rises from.
I mean, wherever you are in the northern hemisphere, the sun rises over the
eastern horizon and sets over the western one. This is an elementary piece
of basic culture, correct?
But what about the moon? Over what horizon does the moon rise and over which
one does it set? Is it as clear with the moon as it is with the sun? Is it
something as basic as "duh, since the sun sets over the west, then the moon
rises over the east, you moron!" or is there something a little more subtle
here?

Please help me figure that out, as this piece of information might very well
be the most commonly known fact that I am unaware of.

Thanks.

WN

PS - the date ended well enough, fooling around on the beach next to the
restaurant. I guess that the fact that I still worry about the moon says a
lot about me...

The rising and setting of all astronomical objects is caused by the rotation
of the Earth. This causes them to seem to rise in the east and set in the
west---the sun, moon, planets, stars...almost everything. But objects
located near the north and south celestial poles just move in circles around
the poles.


"Wladimir Nossel" wrote in message
news:fuoRa.79761$ye4.58720@sccrnsc01...
Hi,

The other evening, I was at a beach side restaurant in Malibu, California.
First piece of news: the sun does not set exactly over the ocean as it
should (we're on the west coast, right?) but rather behind the mountains.
This makes me realize that I'm probably on a segment of the coast facing
south, and that I am not as educated as I thought. Certainly a
disappointment, but I can survive.

Okay, so my date does not get her romantic sunset, but we still enjoy the
ocean and a beautiful moon in the sky. Now, as we discuss the effect of
the
moon on tides (it was a first date and we hadn't kissed yet, thus the
conversation topic), we come to a horrible realization: we have no idea
where the moon rises from.
I mean, wherever you are in the northern hemisphere, the sun rises over
the
eastern horizon and sets over the western one. This is an elementary piece
of basic culture, correct?
But what about the moon? Over what horizon does the moon rise and over
which
one does it set? Is it as clear with the moon as it is with the sun? Is it
something as basic as "duh, since the sun sets over the west, then the
moon
rises over the east, you moron!" or is there something a little more
subtle
here?

Please help me figure that out, as this piece of information might very
well
be the most commonly known fact that I am unaware of.

Thanks.

WN

PS - the date ended well enough, fooling around on the beach next to the
restaurant. I guess that the fact that I still worry about the moon says a
lot about me...

"Wladimir Nossel" wrote in message
Over what horizon does the moon rise and over which
one does it set?

Rises in the east and sets in the west, just like the sun. It follows the
same path as the apparent sun and other planets - more or less. The moon's
orbit is offset about 5 degrees from the plane of the rest of the solar
orbits so that the moon may not rise/set exactly where the sun rises/sets
but will be somewhere between plus and minus 5 degrees from where the sun
rises/sets and its path through the sky.

I'm curious about the Malibu sunset, though. Which direction does Malibu
beach face?

--
Jim Fisher

Did you ever read your text books while in School? That's at lest 4th grade
knowage, the moon rises and sets just like the sun does, and all of it is due to
the spining of the Earth.


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.Netfirms.com/
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com

"Wladimir Nossel" wrote in message
news:fuoRa.79761$ye4.58720@sccrnsc01...
Hi,

The other evening, I was at a beach side restaurant in Malibu, California.
First piece of news: the sun does not set exactly over the ocean as it
should (we're on the west coast, right?) but rather behind the mountains.
This makes me realize that I'm probably on a segment of the coast facing
south, and that I am not as educated as I thought. Certainly a
disappointment, but I can survive.

Okay, so my date does not get her romantic sunset, but we still enjoy the
ocean and a beautiful moon in the sky. Now, as we discuss the effect of the
moon on tides (it was a first date and we hadn't kissed yet, thus the
conversation topic), we come to a horrible realization: we have no idea
where the moon rises from.
I mean, wherever you are in the northern hemisphere, the sun rises over the
eastern horizon and sets over the western one. This is an elementary piece
of basic culture, correct?
But what about the moon? Over what horizon does the moon rise and over which
one does it set? Is it as clear with the moon as it is with the sun? Is it
something as basic as "duh, since the sun sets over the west, then the moon
rises over the east, you moron!" or is there something a little more subtle
here?

Please help me figure that out, as this piece of information might very well
be the most commonly known fact that I am unaware of.

Thanks.

WN

PS - the date ended well enough, fooling around on the beach next to the
restaurant. I guess that the fact that I still worry about the moon says a
lot about me...




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"Wladimir Nossel" wrote in message
news:fuoRa.79761$ye4.58720@sccrnsc01...
Hi,

The other evening, I was at a beach side restaurant in Malibu, California.
First piece of news: the sun does not set exactly over the ocean as it
should (we're on the west coast, right?) but rather behind the mountains.
This makes me realize that I'm probably on a segment of the coast facing
south, and that I am not as educated as I thought. Certainly a
disappointment, but I can survive.

Okay, so my date does not get her romantic sunset, but we still enjoy the
ocean and a beautiful moon in the sky. Now, as we discuss the effect of the
moon on tides (it was a first date and we hadn't kissed yet, thus the
conversation topic), we come to a horrible realization: we have no idea
where the moon rises from.
I mean, wherever you are in the northern hemisphere, the sun rises over the
eastern horizon and sets over the western one. This is an elementary piece
of basic culture, correct?
But what about the moon? Over what horizon does the moon rise and over which
one does it set? Is it as clear with the moon as it is with the sun? Is it
something as basic as "duh, since the sun sets over the west, then the moon
rises over the east, you moron!" or is there something a little more subtle
here?

Please help me figure that out, as this piece of information might very well
be the most commonly known fact that I am unaware of.

Thanks.

WN

PS - the date ended well enough, fooling around on the beach next to the
restaurant. I guess that the fact that I still worry about the moon says a
lot about me...




Yes the moon rises in the east and sets in the west just like the sun. The exact
point on the east or west horizon where they rise/set depend on the lunar phase
and season. For mid-latitudes it can be +/- 30 degrees from due east of west, ie
near NE/SE and NW/SW.

Here are the rules:

1 On full moon the moon rises at sunset at the point opposite on the horizon
where the sun sets (180 degrees apart).

2 First quarter moon rises about noon sets about midnight.

3 Last quarter moon rise about midnight and sets about noon.

You may interpolate for phases in between.

Also...

At mid north latitudes for weeks surrounding the following seasons:

Spring (March equinox)
* sun rise/sets near due E/W
* full moon rise/sets near due E/W
* first quarter rise/sets near NE/NW
* last quarter rise/sets near SE/SW

Summer (June Solstice)
* sun rise/set near SE/SW
* full moon rise/set SE/SW
* both quarters rise/set near due E/W

Autumn (September equinox)
* sun rise/sets near due E/W
* full moon rise/sets near due E/W
* first quarter rise/sets near SE/SW
* last quarter rise/sets near NE/NW

Winter (December solstice)
* sun rise/set near SE/SW
* full moon rise/set SE/SW
* both quarters rise/set near due E/W

You may interpolate for seasons between.

The swings along the horizon for the rise/sets become more extreme the further
north you go and diminish toward the equator.

Will post South hemisphere table if anyone's interested.

Martin

Jim Fisher wrote:

I'm curious about the Malibu sunset, though. Which direction does Malibu
beach face?

I'm not sure about the beaches themselves but the coast between Los
Angeles and Point Conception faces roughly south to
south-by-southwest. Note that near midsummer the sun sets well north
of west; at about 34°N latitude, with the sun still at about 21°N
declination, the geometrical sunset is at azimuth 296°.

--Odysseus

"Starlord" wrote in message
Did you ever read your text books while in School? That's at lest 4th
grade
knowage, the moon rises and sets just like the sun does, and all of it is
due to
the spining of the Earth.

I've forgotten 90% of what I learned from all 16 years of schooling (all the
way through 6th grade!).

Some folks simply cannot intuitively work out orbital mechanics in their
heads. Their brains aren't wired for it. Thank god because this difference
is what gives us artists and musicians as well as scientists and engineers.

--
Jim Fisher

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
...
"Starlord" wrote in message
Did you ever read your text books while in School? That's at lest 4th
grade
knowage, the moon rises and sets just like the sun does, and all of it
is
due to
the spining of the Earth.

I've forgotten 90% of what I learned from all 16 years of schooling (all
the
way through 6th grade!).

Some folks simply cannot intuitively work out orbital mechanics in their
heads. Their brains aren't wired for it. Thank god because this
difference
is what gives us artists and musicians as well as scientists and
engineers.

It's amazing what some of us take for granted now that we have hard evidence
and understanding of the world/heavens around us. People used to think the
earth was the center of the solar system, the earth was flat, etc. The way I
see it, nothing is obvious until it is pointed out to you. I thought it was
a good question, but then again maybe I am one of those that can't work out
orbital mechanics.

BV.

I do NOT work the stuff out in my head, and I hated school from day one right up
to the day I droped out and went into the army at age 17. BUT the facts/data
that I wanted to know I can and do remember from the earlest times of school
along with the massive amounts of knowage I've stored away by reading books and
magazines on my own.


--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.Netfirms.com/
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
...
I've forgotten 90% of what I learned from all 16 years of schooling (all the
way through 6th grade!).

Some folks simply cannot intuitively work out orbital mechanics in their
heads. Their brains aren't wired for it. Thank god because this difference
is what gives us artists and musicians as well as scientists and engineers.

--
Jim Fisher





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Jim Fisher wrote:

Some folks simply cannot intuitively work out orbital mechanics in their
heads. Their brains aren't wired for it. Thank god because this difference
is what gives us artists and musicians as well as scientists and engineers.

I think you're creating a false dichotomy. There seems to be much in
common between musical and mathematical genius, for example, and I
imagine that many of the best painters and sculptors are gifted at
mental visualization. For my part, I'm reasonably comfortable (and, I
hope, competent as laymen go) with the math required for general
astronomical purposes but I'm terrible at 3-D visualization, so in
compensation my calculations are always liberally sprinkled with
scribbled diagrams -- without the crutch of visual aids I wouldn't be
able to 'picture' what I'm doing.

At any rate I think that even among professional astronomers very few
can "intuitively work out orbital mechanics". You must've heard the
old adage about genius, inspiration and perspiration!

--Odysseus