Near surface liquid water on Mars.

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:

Mars and Muddied Waters?
Low Freezing Point
Summary: Can Mars support liquid water? So fundamental a question was
hoped to be resolved with high-resolution orbital images, but the
debate on whether Mars was once wet and warm has a twist: liquid water
may be trapped in the porous soil, even well below its normal freezing
point.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article652.html

Freezing-resistant liquid water in porous media, a possible mechanism
to account for the fluidized transport of sediments on Mars: an
example from East Gorgonum crater.
Roberto Oyarzun1, Cristóbal Viedma1, Alvaro Márquez2 and Javier Lillo
Terra Nova
Volume 15 Issue 4 Page 238 - August 2003
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin...3.00487.x/abs/

It is interesting then that some near equatorial sites such as Gusev
and Meridiani have mean annual surface temperatures at 234 K or -39 C.
See the linked image below.
Then the liquid water could persist at these sites year round.


Bob Clark

Image link
http://sciforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2657

Image taken from:

The presence and stability of ground ice in the southern hemisphere of
Mars.
Michael T. Mellon , William C. Feldman and Thomas H. Prettyman
Icarus, In Press, Corrected Proof, Available online 28 February 2004
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V23E22097

Robert Clark wrote:

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:
[snip]

It is a bunch of NASA bull**** for loud public consumption. Suppose
it were not pure bull****. A NASA geek takes some fine-grained
whatever, wets it with saturated brine, sticks it in the giant NASA
vacuum chamber with a volunteer in a space suit, and said brave
pioneer plays with the miracle stuff at 7-10 torr and -10 C. NASA
makes a movie and calls a press conference.

"Melting Point-Depressed Pore-Occluded Brine and Anomalous Martian
Regolith Physical Properties - We Must Send a Man to Mars Right Now."

If there were large concentrations of halide or water a few inches
deep, various spectroscopic satellites orbiting Mars would have
screaming motherboards and NASA would hold a press conference. If
Mars has been wet with brine these past 5 billion years, there would
be stuff growing in it - it would be a planetary ecosystem of immense
volume with only modestly adverse properties. Stuff in Antarctica
lives in worse.

NASA is screwing with your credulity.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
Robert Clark wrote:

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:
[snip]

It is a bunch of NASA bull**** for loud public consumption. Suppose
it were not pure bull****. A NASA geek takes some fine-grained
whatever, wets it with saturated brine, sticks it in the giant NASA
vacuum chamber with a volunteer in a space suit, and said brave
pioneer plays with the miracle stuff at 7-10 torr and -10 C. NASA
makes a movie and calls a press conference.

"Melting Point-Depressed Pore-Occluded Brine and Anomalous Martian
Regolith Physical Properties - We Must Send a Man to Mars Right Now."

If there were large concentrations of halide or water a few inches
deep, various spectroscopic satellites orbiting Mars would have
screaming motherboards and NASA would hold a press conference. If
Mars has been wet with brine these past 5 billion years, there would
be stuff growing in it - it would be a planetary ecosystem of immense
volume with only modestly adverse properties. Stuff in Antarctica
lives in worse.

NASA is screwing with your credulity.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)

It's all about conspiracies, right Al?

Uncle Al wrote:
NASA is screwing with your credulity.

For Christ sake they haven't even made an announcement yet you lunatic.

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

To reply remove spleen

"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message
...
Uncle Al wrote:
NASA is screwing with your credulity.

For Christ sake they haven't even made an announcement yet you lunatic.


When has that ever stopped the kooks from spewing?

George wrote:

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
Robert Clark wrote:

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:
[snip]

It is a bunch of NASA bull**** for loud public consumption. Suppose
it were not pure bull****. A NASA geek takes some fine-grained
whatever, wets it with saturated brine, sticks it in the giant NASA
vacuum chamber with a volunteer in a space suit, and said brave
pioneer plays with the miracle stuff at 7-10 torr and -10 C. NASA
makes a movie and calls a press conference.

"Melting Point-Depressed Pore-Occluded Brine and Anomalous Martian
Regolith Physical Properties - We Must Send a Man to Mars Right Now."

If there were large concentrations of halide or water a few inches
deep, various spectroscopic satellites orbiting Mars would have
screaming motherboards and NASA would hold a press conference. If
Mars has been wet with brine these past 5 billion years, there would
be stuff growing in it - it would be a planetary ecosystem of immense
volume with only modestly adverse properties. Stuff in Antarctica
lives in worse.

NASA is screwing with your credulity.


It's all about conspiracies, right Al?

NASA isn't smart enough to conspire. NASA professionally manages.
Case in point,

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html

Either NASA has it or NASA don't got it. That isn't science, that is
Hollywood flack fluttering in a mighty wind. Did the insanely
expensive Robot Wars reject image a fossil? Or do we have presumptive
proof that maybe this could be an aqueous sedimentary deposit, except
for some conflicting data like maybe it is a aeolian deposit or merely
some random compacted crap?

**** or Shinola? Uncle Al, knowing some folks who work at JPL up the
road, predicts "ambiguous **** packed into a Shinola tin and tied with
a shiny loud ribbon."

I'd deeply enjoy a fossil. Sending two sad sack RC cars to Mars, $1
billion. Seeing the Vatican **** its silk panties jointly and
severally, priceless. "'One Creation' is only a metaphor. Earth is
the only planet with SALVATION!" Just you wait and see. Let the
Mormons chip in and send missionaries to Mars the way Russian Quakers
took up a collection and removed all the Doukhobors to the New World
in 1899. Even Quakers couldn't stand god-spewing Doukhobors, nor
could Canadians - and Canadians swallowed Quebecois with nary a burp.
Doukhobors were banished to the Canukistani Great Plains where the
resident pacifist Mennonites - also pariahs for having god jammed up
their asses - were motivated into killing rages. Talk about the power
of religion.

NASA doesn't conspire. NASA lies.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

"Uncle Al" wrote in message ...
I'd deeply enjoy a fossil. Sending two sad sack RC cars to Mars, $1
billion. Seeing the Vatican **** its silk panties jointly and
severally, priceless. "'One Creation' is only a metaphor.

Where exactly does the Catholic Church claim life doesn't
exist outside the Earth?

"In my Father's house there are many dwelling places."
-- John 14:2-3

Rick

Uncle Al wrote:

Let the
Mormons chip in and send missionaries to Mars

That was the plot in Starship Troopers,
except it was a different planet, but it *was* Mormons.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120201/

--
pete

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
Robert Clark wrote:

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly
depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:
[snip]

It is a bunch of NASA bull**** for loud public consumption. Suppose
it were not pure bull****. A NASA geek takes some fine-grained
whatever, wets it with saturated brine, sticks it in the giant NASA
vacuum chamber with a volunteer in a space suit, and said brave
pioneer plays with the miracle stuff at 7-10 torr and -10 C. NASA
makes a movie and calls a press conference.

"Melting Point-Depressed Pore-Occluded Brine and Anomalous Martian
Regolith Physical Properties - We Must Send a Man to Mars Right Now."

If there were large concentrations of halide or water a few inches
deep, various spectroscopic satellites orbiting Mars would have
screaming motherboards and NASA would hold a press conference. If
Mars has been wet with brine these past 5 billion years, there would
be stuff growing in it - it would be a planetary ecosystem of immense
volume with only modestly adverse properties. Stuff in Antarctica
lives in worse.

NASA is screwing with your credulity.


It's all about conspiracies, right Al?

NASA isn't smart enough to conspire. NASA professionally manages.
Case in point,

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html

Either NASA has it or NASA don't got it. That isn't science, that is
Hollywood flack fluttering in a mighty wind. Did the insanely
expensive Robot Wars reject image a fossil? Or do we have presumptive
proof that maybe this could be an aqueous sedimentary deposit, except
for some conflicting data like maybe it is a aeolian deposit or merely
some random compacted crap?

**** or Shinola? Uncle Al, knowing some folks who work at JPL up the
road, predicts "ambiguous **** packed into a Shinola tin and tied with
a shiny loud ribbon."

I'd deeply enjoy a fossil. Sending two sad sack RC cars to Mars, $1
billion. Seeing the Vatican **** its silk panties jointly and
severally, priceless. "'One Creation' is only a metaphor. Earth is
the only planet with SALVATION!" Just you wait and see. Let the
Mormons chip in and send missionaries to Mars the way Russian Quakers
took up a collection and removed all the Doukhobors to the New World
in 1899. Even Quakers couldn't stand god-spewing Doukhobors, nor
could Canadians - and Canadians swallowed Quebecois with nary a burp.
Doukhobors were banished to the Canukistani Great Plains where the
resident pacifist Mennonites - also pariahs for having god jammed up
their asses - were motivated into killing rages. Talk about the power
of religion.

NASA doesn't conspire. NASA lies.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

Uncle Al, I think you were spanked too often as a child, and possibly as an
adult as well. PLONK.

George wrote:

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"Uncle Al" wrote in message
...
Robert Clark wrote:

The results from the MER rovers suggest there might be small amounts
of near surface liquid water in the form of brines to explain the
stickiness of the surface at the landing sites:

Into the Briny Deep - Perhaps.
http://www.astrobio.net/news/article842.html

It is also known that capillary action alone can significantly
depress
the freezing point of water, perhaps down to -40 C:
[snip]

It is a bunch of NASA bull**** for loud public consumption. Suppose
it were not pure bull****. A NASA geek takes some fine-grained
whatever, wets it with saturated brine, sticks it in the giant NASA
vacuum chamber with a volunteer in a space suit, and said brave
pioneer plays with the miracle stuff at 7-10 torr and -10 C. NASA
makes a movie and calls a press conference.

"Melting Point-Depressed Pore-Occluded Brine and Anomalous Martian
Regolith Physical Properties - We Must Send a Man to Mars Right Now."

If there were large concentrations of halide or water a few inches
deep, various spectroscopic satellites orbiting Mars would have
screaming motherboards and NASA would hold a press conference. If
Mars has been wet with brine these past 5 billion years, there would
be stuff growing in it - it would be a planetary ecosystem of immense
volume with only modestly adverse properties. Stuff in Antarctica
lives in worse.

NASA is screwing with your credulity.


It's all about conspiracies, right Al?

NASA isn't smart enough to conspire. NASA professionally manages.
Case in point,

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/0....ap/index.html

Either NASA has it or NASA don't got it. That isn't science, that is
Hollywood flack fluttering in a mighty wind. Did the insanely
expensive Robot Wars reject image a fossil? Or do we have presumptive
proof that maybe this could be an aqueous sedimentary deposit, except
for some conflicting data like maybe it is a aeolian deposit or merely
some random compacted crap?

**** or Shinola? Uncle Al, knowing some folks who work at JPL up the
road, predicts "ambiguous **** packed into a Shinola tin and tied with
a shiny loud ribbon."

I'd deeply enjoy a fossil. Sending two sad sack RC cars to Mars, $1
billion. Seeing the Vatican **** its silk panties jointly and
severally, priceless. "'One Creation' is only a metaphor. Earth is
the only planet with SALVATION!" Just you wait and see. Let the
Mormons chip in and send missionaries to Mars the way Russian Quakers
took up a collection and removed all the Doukhobors to the New World
in 1899. Even Quakers couldn't stand god-spewing Doukhobors, nor
could Canadians - and Canadians swallowed Quebecois with nary a burp.
Doukhobors were banished to the Canukistani Great Plains where the
resident pacifist Mennonites - also pariahs for having god jammed up
their asses - were motivated into killing rages. Talk about the power
of religion.

NASA doesn't conspire. NASA lies.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!

Uncle Al, I think you were spanked too often as a child, and possibly as an
adult as well. PLONK.

Uncle Al was toilet trained at gunpoint. Try to be more creative - or
at least more self-aware.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)