Lava, not water, said cause of Mars beds

"A U.S. researcher says large, river-like channels seen on
Mars were created not by water but by massive, fast-moving
lava flows of a type we don't see on Earth."

See:

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Lav..._beds_999.html

On 8/13/2011 4:10 PM, wrote:
"A U.S. researcher says large, river-like channels seen on
Mars were created not by water but by massive, fast-moving
lava flows of a type we don't see on Earth."

See:

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Lav..._beds_999.html

Yeah, I thought that the water was a pretty convenient explanation for
those, although I thought they might be due to liquid CO2 flows when the
atmosphere was thicker, not lava.

Pat

On Aug 13, 5:10*pm, wrote:
"A U.S. researcher says large, river-like channels seen on
Mars were created not by water but by massive, fast-moving
lava flows of a type we don't see on Earth."

See:

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Lav...use_of_Mars_be...

How massive and nearby was the moon of Mars when such fluid lava was
flowing?

wrote in message
...
"A U.S. researcher says large, river-like channels seen on
Mars were created not by water but by massive, fast-moving
lava flows of a type we don't see on Earth."


"...says what we interpret as the largest ancient riverbeds on Mars
most likely were created by low-viscosity lava flows..."


More like mud


"...lava is a much more likely culprit for creating the largest class
of the outflow channels and canyons, some of which stretch up
to 1,800 miles."


1800 mile long lava flows? I guess the lava stays very warm on the
surface of Mars for a very long time. It'll take some creative research
to contrive an explanation for that.


"There's really no known process for the rapid eruption of large
amounts of water from aquifers to form channels that are
thousands of miles long,"


Well there certainly isn't for lava. But a planet which currently
has the top few meters of soil coMprised of up to 50% water
ice, and has ice-ages, and is known to be as warm as 80 deg f
at the surface, and he says there is no known possible explanation?
What a dolt.

There's a frozen body of ice on the surface of Mars
the size of the North Sea and some fifty meters deep
....today.


Jonathan


s



See:

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Lav..._beds_999.html

There's a frozen body of ice on the surface of Mars
the size of the North Sea and some fifty meters deep
...today.

Jonathan

plus didnt researchers find salt too? which would fit well with oceans

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

There's a frozen body of ice on the surface of Mars
the size of the North Sea and some fifty meters deep
...today.

Jonathan

plus didn't researchers find salt too? which would fit well with oceans

Right! Which is why the soil is so briny, as a salt water sea
dries up, it would get saltier and saltier. And it should be
remembered, the very earliest life on Earth did nothing
but convert sulfates into hydrogen sulfide, which does nothing
but cause the precipitation of heavy metals, like...iron.
And only in low oxygen environments, btw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria

Meridiani is a sulfate rich/salty soil coated in iron spheres.

Maybe that researcher thought lava created this picture.
Even a child can see where the water used to be
and the shoreline like erosion patterns.
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/783...5L7L7.jpg.html

And if this isn't a small sinkhole, I'll eat my hat.
The most likely explanation is the melting
of underground ice.
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/194...5L7L7.jpg.html

And another telling feature of the dunes is their
'tiger stripes'.

Dune stripes
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/198...5L6L6.jpg.html

Normally such sedimentary rock and dunes would form in
flat horizontal sheets. As seen here.
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/233...5L7L7.jpg.html

But on Mars the dunes aren't flat sheets, but on that steep angle.
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/783...5L7L7.jpg.html

The only way that could happen if there were two or more
instances of dune formation. At first there would be a flat
sheet of soil made up of horizontal layers, then wind or water
would cut into the soil and create dunes with horizontal layering.
But if they were covered up again, then a new period of dune
formation, but from a different direction, then the new dunes
would have the layering tilted like that.

I suppose it's possible the prevailing winds changed directions
so dramatically. But it seems more likely to me that one period
of dune formation is from water, and the other from wind.
Or even two periods of water erosion as the bottom of
a shallow sea.

The uniform size and distribution of the spheres means they
precipitated in water. On Mars, they come in two, and
only two, uniform sizes. The 2-3 mm normal size seen
everywhere, and another much smaller size
at least 1/10 the size.

The smaller size population of spheres make up the finely
grained dune going across the lower right of this image.
http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/194...5L5L7.jpg.html

That would imply two different epochs of sphere formation.
Two successive bodies of water.


Jonathan


s

On Aug 17, 7:20*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...



There's a frozen body of ice on the surface of Mars
the size of the North Sea and some fifty meters deep
...today.

Jonathan

plus didn't researchers find salt too? which would fit well with oceans

Right! Which is why the soil is so briny, as a salt water sea
dries up, it would get saltier and saltier. And it should be
remembered, the very earliest life on Earth did nothing
but convert sulfates into hydrogen sulfide, which does nothing
but cause the precipitation of heavy metals, like...iron.
And only in low oxygen environments, btw.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria

Meridiani is a sulfate rich/salty soil coated in iron spheres.

Maybe that researcher thought lava created this picture.
Even a child can see where the water used to be
and the shoreline like erosion patterns.http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/783...8DBP2384L5M1_L...

And if this isn't a small sinkhole, I'll eat my hat.
The most likely explanation is the melting
of underground ice.http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/194...A400P2530L5M1_...

And another telling feature of the dunes is their
'tiger stripes'.

Dune stripeshttp://areo.info/mer/opportunity/1983/tn/1P304220978EFFA5C7P2396L5M1_...

Normally such sedimentary rock and dunes would form in
flat horizontal sheets. As seen here.http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/233...AONOP2392L5M1_...

But on Mars the dunes aren't flat sheets, but on that steep angle.http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/783...8DBP2561L5M1_L...

The only way that could happen if there were two or more
instances of dune formation. At first there would be a flat
sheet of soil made up of horizontal layers, then wind or water
would cut into the soil and create dunes with horizontal layering.
But if they were covered up again, then a new period of dune
formation, but from a different direction, then the new dunes
would have the layering tilted like that.

I suppose it's possible the prevailing winds changed directions
so dramatically. But it seems more likely to me that one period
of dune formation is from water, and the other from wind.
Or even two periods of water erosion as the bottom of
a shallow sea.

The uniform size and distribution of the spheres means they
precipitated in water. On Mars, they come in two, and
only two, uniform sizes. The 2-3 mm normal size seen
everywhere, and another much smaller size
at least 1/10 the size.

The smaller size population of spheres make up the finely
grained dune going across the lower right of this image.http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/194...A400P2382L5M1_...

That would imply two different epochs of sphere formation.
Two successive bodies of water.

Jonathan

s

send more spirit and opportunities, a field tested durable
design.......

and later send a sample return lander

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

send more spirit and opportunities, a field tested durable
design.......

and later send a sample return lander


I like the current plan, which is to send the lab there.
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/...n/instruments/

Much faster, a sample return would take years to
get back to Earth since it's hard to put much fuel
on the surface of Mars. You should see how this
thing is going to land. They call it a skycrane, which
will hover just off the surface and lower the rover
by cables to the ground. After watching how it lands
I really wish they'd send two of these, just in case.

They make the greatest videos for these missions.

Multimedia
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/videos/


And the landing site looks like a great choice, at
the bottom of the largest 'hole' in the ground they
can find, where there's also Meridiani like layered
sedimentary rock. Lower altitude means warmer
temps, and more likely to have water melting out.

Landing site image
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/...AF9328812B888E


07.22.2011
Source: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
NASA's Next Mars Rover to Land at Gale Crater

"The portion of the crater where Curiosity will land has
an alluvial fan likely formed by water-carried sediments.
The layers at the base of the mountain contain clays
and sulfates, both known to form in water."
"One fascination with Gale is that it's a huge crater sitting
in a very low-elevation position on Mars, and we all know
that water runs downhill," said John Grotzinger, the mission's
project scientist at the California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, Calif. "In terms of the total vertical profile exposed
and the low elevation, Gale offers attractions similar to Mars'
famous Valles Marineris, the largest canyon in the solar system."
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/...ws&NewsID=1141

On Aug 18, 8:10*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

...

send more spirit and opportunities, a field tested durable
design.......
and later send a sample return lander

I like the current plan, which is to send the lab there.http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/...n/instruments/

Much faster, a sample return would take years to
get back to Earth since it's hard to put much fuel
on the surface of Mars. You should see how this
thing is going to land. They call it a skycrane, which
will hover just off the surface and lower the rover
by cables to the ground. *After watching how it lands
I really wish they'd send two of these, just in case.

They make the greatest videos for these missions.

Multimediahttp://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/videos/

And the landing site looks like a great choice, at
the bottom of the largest 'hole' in the ground they
can find, where there's also Meridiani like layered
sedimentary rock. Lower altitude means warmer
temps, and more likely to have water melting out.

Landing site imagehttp://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/images/?ImageID=3555&N...

07.22.2011
Source: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
NASA's Next Mars Rover to Land at Gale Crater

"The portion of the crater where Curiosity will land has
an alluvial fan likely formed by water-carried sediments.
The layers at the base of the mountain contain clays
and sulfates, both known to form in water."
"One fascination with Gale is that it's a huge crater sitting
in a very low-elevation position on Mars, and we all know
that water runs downhill," said John Grotzinger, the mission's
project scientist at the California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, Calif. "In terms of the total vertical profile exposed
and the low elevation, Gale offers attractions similar to Mars'
famous Valles Marineris, the largest canyon in the solar system."http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/news/whatsnew/index.cfm?FuseActio...

create fuel on site, using anuclear reactor.to fuel a sample return
mission