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Question About Probes



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 27th 04, 06:49 PM
BenignVanilla
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Default Question About Probes

I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity. Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I got to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of scale, if the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system. Let them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com



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  #2  
Old February 27th 04, 08:55 PM
starlord
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Default Question About Probes

The trouble with just photos is they only show what anything looks
like, they tell nothing about WHAT anything is made of. The rovers are
about as simple as you can get and yet still be able to give good data
about what they are testing.



--
"Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5
www.starlords.org


"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the

importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity.

Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I got

to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is

just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of

scale, if the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in

such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system. Let

them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com





  #3  
Old February 27th 04, 09:33 PM
David Nakamoto
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Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

Well, let's see. No propulsion system so no way to correct it's course,
meaning you'll miss your target by margins that will mean you probably won't
see anything because you'll loat by millions of kilometers away.

No reaction wheels or scan platform so no way to point the camera so no
pictures.

No power source mentioned, so no power if you did get it up there.

No launch system mentioned, which would have to have a lot of sustained
thrust to get it away from an Earth-orbit and into interplanetary space.

No mention of what kind of antenna we're going to use. This is a real
design driver on spacecraft, so simply designing a transmitter/receiver is
only half your problem there. Actually a third or a fourth, because
depending on your choice of antenna, power source, propulsion and pointing
mechanism and its accuracy, these all drive the spacecraft design.

I'll assume we're going to design in radiation-hard circuits and storage
medium to allow for differences in the speed of the camera verses speed of
transmission.

That's the general list. It gets more involved after that.

--- Dave

"BenignVanilla" wrote in message
...
I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the

importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity. Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I got to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of scale, if

the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system. Let them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com





  #4  
Old February 28th 04, 06:01 AM
jerry warner
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Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

I think we are entering the era of the robotic probe. Hundreds (1000's) will be
launched of varying complexity ... all at a fraction of the cost of one manned
mission
and with far more earth-bound economic impact. Im a firm believer in manned
missions but they need to be reserved for important ventures on a brand new
launch platform.... Saturn V-A ?
jerry




BenignVanilla wrote:

I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity. Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I got to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of scale, if the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system. Let them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com


  #5  
Old February 28th 04, 07:42 AM
starlord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

In my opion going BACKWARDS to another throw away booster is a waste
of time and energy and money. They could have had the next gen. of
shuttle built by now and flying and be building manned mission crafts
in orbit.


--
"Knowledge is a 3 edged Sword" Kosh on Babylon 5
www.starlords.org


"jerry warner" wrote in message
...
I think we are entering the era of the robotic probe. Hundreds

(1000's) will be
launched of varying complexity ... all at a fraction of the cost of

one manned
mission
and with far more earth-bound economic impact. Im a firm believer in

manned
missions but they need to be reserved for important ventures on a

brand new
launch platform.... Saturn V-A ?
jerry




BenignVanilla wrote:

I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the

importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity.

Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I

got to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is

just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of

scale, if the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in

such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system.

Let them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?

--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com




  #6  
Old February 28th 04, 09:57 AM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

Except that a throwaway booster is going to be less expensive for many
missions than running any shuttle. Why? Safety issues. If you have a
cryogenic rocket (hydrogen and oxygen) in the shuttle hold, you've got a
bomb in there waiting to go off is something goes wrong. Same with some
other fuel/oxydizer combinations. But if you launch it on an unmanned
expendible, you don't have to worry about Astronaut safety.

Another factor is that manned boosters needs to keep their G-forces low
enough to make sure the crew gets into space without being squashed. On
expendibles you don't have this factor, and therefore you can use higher
thrust, which might save on overwll weight.

No, expendibles are a necessary part of a successful space program for
decades to come. This is one of the fallacies that the shuttle program
should have taught everyone. We TRIED going with a shuttle for all heavy
lifting jobs, and it just didn't work.

If we have any national will to do space exploration right, we NEED both a
truly reusable shuttle AND a set of medium to heavy lift expendibles.

--- Dave

"starlord inreach.com" starlord* wrote in message
...
In my opion going BACKWARDS to another throw away booster is a waste
of time and energy and money. They could have had the next gen. of
shuttle built by now and flying and be building manned mission crafts
in orbit.


"jerry warner" wrote in message
...
I think we are entering the era of the robotic probe. Hundreds

(1000's) will be
launched of varying complexity ... all at a fraction of the cost of

one manned
mission
and with far more earth-bound economic impact. Im a firm believer in

manned
missions but they need to be reserved for important ventures on a

brand new
launch platform.... Saturn V-A ?
jerry


BenignVanilla wrote:

I have been closely following the Mars mission and understand the

importance
of the experiments, but certainly all of that gear ads complexity.

Then I
look at the photo's Cassini is sending back and am in awe. So I

got to
thinking, what the complexities be, in designing a probe that is

just a hi
res camera, and a transmitter/receiver. Considering economy of

scale, if the
device were small and simple, we could product them cheaply and in

such
quantities that we could launch them all over the solar system.

Let them
wander, take photo's and send them home.

What are we talking in expense? complexity? doablibility?



  #7  
Old February 28th 04, 03:57 PM
Eddwen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

If we have any national will to do space exploration right, we NEED both a
truly reusable shuttle AND a set of medium to heavy lift expendible


And we need a reasonable assumption of risk to human life. Perhaps something
equivalent to the average number of deaths per mile when compared to world-wide
automobile use or general aviation aircraft.

Edd
  #8  
Old February 28th 04, 04:00 PM
Chris Marriott
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Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes


"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...

If we have any national will to do space exploration right, we NEED both a
truly reusable shuttle AND a set of medium to heavy lift expendibles.


"We" (ie we Europeans) do have a heavy lift capability - Ariane 5, which has
something like a 70% world-wide market share of the commercial launch
business :-)

Don't you think that it's a bit silly to bring "nationalism" into space
exploration? Shouldn't "we" - the entire human race - be working together to
achieve it, rather than talking about things like "national will"?

Regards,

Chris


  #9  
Old February 28th 04, 04:14 PM
Chris Marriott
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Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

Reading that last message, it doesn't say what I meant to say. Let's have
another go...

What I was trying to say is wouldn't it be more sensible for countries to
cooperate in space exploration, rather than trying to "compete" for an
out-moded concept of "nationalism"? The cold war is long, long over!

ie, given that ESA has an excellent heavy lift vehicle in the form of Ariane
5, what would be the point of the US spending enormous sums of money to
develop its own heavy lift capability? Would it not be more sensible to have
international collaboration and (for example) the US to develop payloads for
launch on ESA's launch vehicle?

Regards,

Chris


  #10  
Old February 28th 04, 04:43 PM
Brian Tung
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Posts: n/a
Default Question About Probes

Chris Marriott wrote:
What I was trying to say is wouldn't it be more sensible for countries to
cooperate in space exploration, rather than trying to "compete" for an
out-moded concept of "nationalism"? The cold war is long, long over!


I don't think it's an issue of nationalism anymore. I suspect (but don't
know for sure) that it's an issue of supporting the aerospace industry.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt
 




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