Is it possible to have a planetary system with dozens of planets and hundreds of moons?

Gene Ward Smith wrote:

That's not the real problem. The trick is to get that many habitable
planets, which does not appear to be possible.

I vaguely remember (and am vainly paging through my NESFA Press
books trying to find a reference) that Hal Clement designed a
system with several habitable planets as easy to get around in as
in old-time space opera, and provided it free to any fan who
wanted to write scientifically accurate pulp stories. Does
anyone else know what I'm talking about? And if it is actually
placed in the public domain, could it be sent to Project
Gutenberg?

--
-Jack

tracy wrote:
According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar system has with
"dozens of planets and hundreds of moons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nets_and_moons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Versediagram.png


Is it possible for such system to exist naturally? Could Firefly have
gotten it right?

I don't think there is any suggestion in FIREFLY that the home system came
about "naturally." The word "terraforming" is mentioned often, and the
concept turns up as an essential in several of the stories.

"Gene Ward Smith" wrote in message
ups.com...
That's not the real problem. The trick is to get that many habitable
planets, which does not appear to be possible.

Insofar as you imply "impossible," I must completely disagree. More than
one physicist has examined the question, and the answer is usually "very
unlikely, given present science and technology." I have linked to the
best-known discussions of this in my FAQ, which is he
http://snipurl.com/k8ui

And quoting from the relevant (it's right near the end) section....

"There's a real high-level debate over whether Firefly's solar system makes
sense. You don't have to be a rocket-scientist to enjoy...well, actually,
you probably do. Astrophysicists and serious hobbyists will love the debate
between Will McCarthy and John Schilling . "

For those using text readers, the links a
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue439/labnotes.html
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.b...e8b84c7?hl=en&

"tracy"
According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar
system has with "dozens of planets and hundreds of
moons."

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
I was profoundly irritated by Firefly's contemptuous
ignorance of space and physics, which was not limited to
having far too many habitable planets in a single
system, but showed up in many forms on almost every
single show. Like the retcons and lost plot points in
the later "Buffy" story arcs, it seemed to show contempt
for the viewers intelligence. Why are people who fly in
spaceships using early twentieth century weapons? Why
are they hotwiring a spaceship? And so on and so forth.

Well, I'm glad to hear you're a fan (or perhaps you are saying you are not?)
since I've enjoyed your site (www.jim.com, a wonderful resource) and your
comments for years.

Regarding FIREFLY, however, your comment suggests maybe you've not watched
most of the shows (?).

Or else: you have judged all other televised and filmed sci-fi to not just
*profoundly* ignorant, but instead deeply, massively, hugely, gigantically,
etceterally ignorant of science. Whatever deficits FIREFLY suffered WRT the
science, it suffered less than nearly any other motion-picture sci-fi.

It's kind of like those, like me, who agree that the USA is the worst nation
on Earth - with the exception of all the others.

For most of us who grew up inured to the standard set by Roddenberry -
routine travel at many-times the speed of light and ubiquitous devices that
rearrange molecules in much the way most cultures imagine "god" - FIREFLY
was a refreshing tip-of-the-hat to real science.

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
Further, what made it good was the characters,
relationships, etc - but facts about characters
established in earlier episodes were not allowed to get
in the way of story lines in later episodes. The
characters, their life histories, the far future social
order, the far future economic order, and the far future
social norms, were not particularly consistent from one
episode to the next.

It's as if we watched different shows. Similar to my earlier response, I
must say that no TV show exhibits superb consistency, but few ever produced
were as consistent as FIREFLY. In producing my FIREFLY FAQ (at
http://snipurl.com/k8ui,) I was easily able to pin down many, many facts
about the storyline which were simply not open to contradiction or
challenge.

On 25 Oct 2006 14:49:28 -0700, "tracy" wrote:

According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar system has with
"dozens of planets and hundreds of moons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nets_and_moons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Versediagram.png


Is it possible for such system to exist naturally? Could Firefly have
gotten it right?

No.

Depending on exactly how we define "planet", the solar system we live
in right now, may have dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Or,
if we use another definition of "planet", it is absolutely impossible
for any solar system other than this one, to have any planets at all.

But what you're asking, and what "Firefly" showed us, was a solar
system with hundreds of inhabitable worlds.

That is not possible, without invoking technology so immensely powerful
the whole story becomes a pointless exercise of transcendant demigods
playing sadistic games with their pets.


Two inhabitable worlds per solar system, whether by nature or by act
of Man, is certainly plausible. Under ideal circumstances, three or
four even. A hundred "planets and moons", means a hundred worlds that
make Pluto and/or Mercury look hospitable.


--
*John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, *
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" *
*Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition *
*White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute *
* for success" *
*661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition *

Atlas Bugged wrote:
tracy wrote:
According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar system has with
"dozens of planets and hundreds of moons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nets_and_moons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Versediagram.png


Is it possible for such system to exist naturally? Could Firefly have
gotten it right?

I don't think there is any suggestion in FIREFLY that the home system came
about "naturally." The word "terraforming" is mentioned often, and the
concept turns up as an essential in several of the stories.

"Gene Ward Smith" wrote in message
ups.com...
That's not the real problem. The trick is to get that many habitable
planets, which does not appear to be possible.

Insofar as you imply "impossible," I must completely disagree.

Have you considered Scientology as a life path?

More than
one physicist has examined the question, and the answer is usually "very
unlikely, given present science and technology." I have linked to the
best-known discussions of this in my FAQ, which is he
http://snipurl.com/k8ui

And quoting from the relevant (it's right near the end) section....

"There's a real high-level debate over whether Firefly's solar system makes
sense. You don't have to be a rocket-scientist to enjoy...well, actually,
you probably do. Astrophysicists and serious hobbyists will love the debate
between Will McCarthy and John Schilling . "

For those using text readers, the links a
http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue439/labnotes.html
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.b...e8b84c7?hl=en&

Atlas Bugged wrote:
"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
Further, what made it good was the characters,
relationships, etc - but facts about characters
established in earlier episodes were not allowed to get
in the way of story lines in later episodes. The
characters, their life histories, the far future social
order, the far future economic order, and the far future
social norms, were not particularly consistent from one
episode to the next.

It's as if we watched different shows. Similar to my earlier response, I
must say that no TV show exhibits superb consistency, but few ever produced
were as consistent as FIREFLY. In producing my FIREFLY FAQ (at
http://snipurl.com/k8ui,) I was easily able to pin down many, many facts
about the storyline which were simply not open to contradiction or
challenge.

Indeed, one of the best things about Firefly is the way the characters'
stories and a number of different sub-plots develop over a number of
episodes. That's why it's a magnus opus rather than just another series
built-to-formula. I just wish it could have had the chance to be more
magnus.

wrote:
Atlas Bugged wrote:
"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
Further, what made it good was the characters,
relationships, etc - but facts about characters
established in earlier episodes were not allowed to get
in the way of story lines in later episodes. The
characters, their life histories, the far future social
order, the far future economic order, and the far future
social norms, were not particularly consistent from one
episode to the next.

It's as if we watched different shows. Similar to my earlier response, I
must say that no TV show exhibits superb consistency, but few ever produced
were as consistent as FIREFLY. In producing my FIREFLY FAQ (at
http://snipurl.com/k8ui,) I was easily able to pin down many, many facts
about the storyline which were simply not open to contradiction or
challenge.

Indeed, one of the best things about Firefly is the way the characters'
stories and a number of different sub-plots develop over a number of
episodes. That's why it's a magnus opus rather than just another series
built-to-formula. I just wish it could have had the chance to be more
magnus.

er, apparently that should have been 'Magnum opus', not 'magnus'

tracy wrote:
According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar system has with
"dozens of planets and hundreds of moons."
In this news, Earth like planets may be common even in systems with
Jupiter-like gas giants near the star.

Possible? No probably not. I mean in an infinite universe pigs fly
right? But not very likely, no. However this is Joss Whedon. He
doesn't really CARE if its possible. It was actually a long
standing mystery while the TV series was on the air as to whether it
was one solar system or they were somehow traveling between many solar
systems. I suppose he got tired of the argument and just said "fine
its all in one place".

He's interested in characters, not the tech or science so much. In his
worlds the world forms as needed to support the story. I do enjoy his
characters enough to forgive him for some hand waving on setting. But
I think it is, in fact, totally fantastical and not in the least within
the realms of the probable.

"tracy" wrote in message
ps.com...
According to the opening line of Firefly, the solar system has with
"dozens of planets and hundreds of moons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nets_and_moons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Versediagram.png


Is it possible for such system to exist naturally? Could Firefly have
gotten it right?

In this news, Earth like planets may be common even in systems with
Jupiter-like gas giants near the star.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ea...ought_999.html

The worlds of FIREFLY were terraformed. So yes.

-- Ken from Chicago