Where else in our solar system could humanity colonize, besides mars?

since elon is building the infrastructure where else could we go?

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

since elon is building the infrastructure where else could we go?

Titan, Europa among others.

The asteroid belt.

The Sun, but only at night...

Seriously, I think we'd want to go where there's easily accessible organic
volatiles. We can do a lot if we have access to carbon and water.


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

Anywhere you can build (or send) a space colony, I suppose:

http://www.space.com/22228-space-sta...fographic.html


Why colonize Mars, where the low gravity will weaken the bodies of the
colonists, and may cause health problems for their children, when you can build
rotating colonies that provide a 1-G environment and be placed in whatever orbit
is most convenient?

In article ,
says...

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

since elon is building the infrastructure where else could we go?

Titan, Europa among others.

The asteroid belt.

The Sun, but only at night...

Seriously, I think we'd want to go where there's easily accessible organic
volatiles. We can do a lot if we have access to carbon and water.

Or you just need a transportation architecture which can move those
volatiles to where they're needed. The nice thing is, those same
volatiles can be used to make fuel and oxidizer for transportation.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

wrote:

Anywhere you can build (or send) a space colony, I suppose:

http://www.space.com/22228-space-sta...fographic.html


Why colonize Mars, where the low gravity will weaken the bodies of the
colonists, and may cause health problems for their children, when you can build
rotating colonies that provide a 1-G environment and be placed in whatever orbit
is most convenient?


Because we don't have to build Mars and add all the resources required
for people to live, since it's all already there.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

since elon is building the infrastructure where else could we go?

Titan, Europa among others.

The asteroid belt.

The Sun, but only at night...

Seriously, I think we'd want to go where there's easily accessible
organic
volatiles. We can do a lot if we have access to carbon and water.

Or you just need a transportation architecture which can move those
volatiles to where they're needed. The nice thing is, those same
volatiles can be used to make fuel and oxidizer for transportation.

True, which is partly what I was getting at. But, I think that "where
needed" will be rare since generally where we'll want to go in the first
place, most likely will have volatiles (other than perhaps non-polar parts
of the lunar surface.)

That said.. plans on paper are one thing. Let's wait until he starts flying
hardware on a regular basis!


Jeff

--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
That said.. plans on paper are one thing. Let's wait until he starts flying
hardware on a regular basis!

And not in horizontal direction!

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 8:58:35 AM UTC-7, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote:

Anywhere you can build (or send) a space colony, I suppose:

http://www.space.com/22228-space-sta...fographic.html


Why colonize Mars, where the low gravity will weaken the bodies of the
colonists, and may cause health problems for their children, when you can build
rotating colonies that provide a 1-G environment and be placed in whatever orbit
is most convenient?


Because we don't have to build Mars and add all the resources required
for people to live, since it's all already there.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn


And the necessary materials can't be harvested from the Moon and/or Asteroids?

http://www.space.com/31553-asteroid-...resources.html

wrote:

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 8:58:35 AM UTC-7, Fred J. McCall wrote:
wrote:

Anywhere you can build (or send) a space colony, I suppose:

http://www.space.com/22228-space-sta...fographic.html


Why colonize Mars, where the low gravity will weaken the bodies of the
colonists, and may cause health problems for their children, when you can build
rotating colonies that provide a 1-G environment and be placed in whatever orbit
is most convenient?


Because we don't have to build Mars and add all the resources required
for people to live, since it's all already there.


And the necessary materials can't be harvested from the Moon and/or Asteroids?


From the Moon, unlikely. From the asteroids, perhaps, but then you
have to do the 'harvesting' and collect everything all in one place to
use it. That requires using more resources than if you could just
drive a tractor over and get it.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 5:18:05 AM UTC+13, bob haller wrote:
since elon is building the infrastructure where else could we go?

http://www.space.com/1526-largest-as...ter-earth.html

http://www.space.com/24366-dwarf-pla...volcanoes.html

Aphelion 2.9773 AU (445,410,000 km)
Perihelion 2.5577 AU (382,620,000 km)
Semi-major axis 2.7675 AU (414,010,000 km)
Eccentricity 0.075823
Orbital period 4.60 yr 1,681.63 d
Synodic period 466.6 d 1.278 yr
Average orbital speed 17.905 km/s
Mean anomaly 95.9891°
Inclination 10.593° to ecliptic 9.20° to invariable plane
Longitude of ascending node 80.3293°
Argument of perihelion 72.5220°
Precession of perihelion 54.070272 arcsec / yr
Precession of the ascending node −59.170034 arcsec / yr

Physical characteristics

Dimensions (965.2 × 961.2× 891.2) ± 2.0 km
Mean radius 473 km
Surface area 2,770,000 square km
Volume 421,000,000 cubic kilometers
Mass (9.393±0.005)×10^20 kg 0.00015 Earths 0.0128 Moons
Mean density 2.161±0.009 g/cc
Surface gravity 0.28 m/s2 0.029 gee
Escape velocity 0.51 km/s
Sidereal rotation period 0.3781 days or 9.07417 hours
Equatorial rotation velocity 92.61 m/s
Axial tilt 4°
North pole right ascension 294.18°
North pole declination 66.764°
Albedo 0.090±0.0033

Rock has a density of about 2.65 g/cc and ice an average density of 0.94 g/cc while the average density of Ceres is 2.16 g/cc. So, Ceres could be 71..4% rock and 28.6% ice - or 2.686x10^20 kg of water and 6.699x10^20 kg of rock.

The rock likely consists of

oxygen, 47 percent;
silicon, 27 percent;
aluminum, 8 percent;
iron, 5 percent;
calcium, 4 percent;
everything else, 2 percent;

1.809x10^20 kg of Silicon.

Silicon (Si) nanowires (NWs) are one of the key building blocks for nanoelectronic and nanoelectromechanical devices. They exhibit excellent mechanical, electrical,and optical properties, in addition to interesting multifunctional properties such as piezoresistivity and thermoelectricity. As such, Si NWs have been used in a broad range of applications including nanoelectronics, nanosensors, nanoresonators, light-emitting diodes, and thermoelectric energy scavengers.

Fracture strength of 12.2 GPa with a Young's Modulus of 165 GPa.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5906223/silic...nder-substance

Now, McKendree Cylinders and Bishop Ring Habitats, may be constructed with this material.

http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/nano4/mckendreePaper.html

http://www.iase.cc/openair.htm

At 2,329.6 kg/m3 and 12.2 GPa fracture strength, a ring 976 km in diameter and 40 meters thick, creates a tube that masses 93.18 metric tons per square meter. 138.36 metric tons of water per square meter is also available, so, there's plenty of water. Oxygen too is available in abundance.

At 2.8 AU from Sol, the sunlight at Ceres is 174.5 Watts/m2. To obtain an average intensity of 250.0 Watts/m2 means that a 976 km diameter ring rotating once every 23.36 minutes produces centripetal force of one gee pushing radially outward along its 3,066.2 km length, is 170.3 km wide. 522,209.7 square kilometers in area.

With a thin film concentrator attached to the back of the ring, focusing sunlight on to a mirror and lens system at the centre of the ring, which redirects the light onto half the ring, creating night on one half the ring, and day following a cosine curve on the other half - and projecting this changing intensity of light around the ring every 24 hours - reproduces day night cycle inside the ring.

This ring masses 48.66x10^15 kg. A total of 3,717 such rings could be made from Ceres. A total habitable area of 1,941 million sq km. (Larger than Earth's surface). A single concentrator 976 km in diameter, at 2.8 AU from Sol, intercepts 130.5 trillion watts of solar power and produces 101.8 trillion watts of useful laser energy. Each collector is capable of processing 0.21x10^15 kg/year. So, 1,136 of these collectors can produce five rings of this size each year.

Every 466.6 days Earth and Ceres are in alignment so that by boosting to 12..88 km/sec (4.98 km/sec faster than LEO) a payload arrives at Ceres 478.3 days later. There it is moving 12.9 km/sec which is 5.0 km/sec slower than 17.9 km/sec speed of Ceres. Falling to Ceres it arrives at a speed of 5.02 km/sec.

A total delta vee of 10.0 km/sec! With an exhaust speed of 3.8 km/sec a LOX/LNG rocket only 7.2% of the payload on orbit arrives at Ceres. With a 4.2% structure fraction, only 3.0% of the payload arrives at Ceres. A two stage system delivers 5.2% of the Earth orbiting payload to Ceres.

A 10,000 ton take off weight delivering 655 tons to Orbit. Refueling the second stage on orbit, delivers 655 tons to a Ceres transfer orbit that's 0.58 km/sec shy of that needed to make it to Ceres. At this speed the transfer stage loops around the Sun arriving back at Earth orbit precisely two years after launch - where it is recovered and reused. The 655 ton payload - a separate stage - boosts another 0.58 km/sec - which takes 92.7 tons of propellant. Another 412.3 tons of propellant bring 150 tons to rest on the surface of Ceres.

An object on the equator of Ceres moves with a speed of 92.61 m/sec. Orbital velocity is 360.62 m/sec at 473 km. A difference of 268 m/sec. (600 mph). Maglev rail has already exceeded this speed.

A satellite orbiting at an altitude of 710 km above the surface is stationary with the Surface of Ceres. Towers built by material launched by rail gun or maglev from Ceres surface into Ceres orbit easily encircles the dwarf planet! Building a ring 2366 km in diameter around Ceres, and hauling materials up from the Surface to process into components .

Basically a spherical shell 2366 km in diameter with two spherical caps missing 2122 km tall + 26.8 degrees above the equator, and -26.8 degrees below the equator - form the assembly floor of factory that produces two shells every 90 days. Each cap has a diamter of 976 km - and this is where each ring emerges from the system - spinning at a velocity that gives the system a gravity of 0.8 gees. The factory floor occupies 15.7 million sq km. 160 trillion tons of material is used to build the factory. Two rings every three months translate to 48.6 trillion tons each - or 32.4 trillion tons per month.

Each finished ring is 0.52 million sq km. 30 rings get processed on this floor simultaneously, and as they move from the equator to the discharge site, their relative gravity increases from 0 gee to 0.8 gee. Conservation of momentum does the rest. It takes five years to fill the supply chain, and two rings are discharged each month.

Each ring is between the size of Sweden and France, and is twice the size of New Zealand. At 122 people per sq km, 127.5 million inhabitants are housed per quarter. 510 million people per year!

150 tons on the surface involve 200 early settlers, with 50 tons of self-replicating utility fog. This utility fog uses ambient solar energy to double in total mass every hour until they populate the entire surface, which occurs 72 hours after landing. After that time material is ejected into Ceres orbit, and space based collectors intercept sunlight off Ceres. Doubling rate slows eventually to once every 44 hours. At this rate, the entire system just described, achieving the production rate described, in five years after arrival.

1,200 collectors each 976 km in diameter, each producing 101 TW of power are erected ahead of and trailing Ceres - to power the factory here. Three such collectors are dispatched to Earth, and Dozens more are built to support a photonic thruster transfer stage operating between Earth and Ceres.

At Earth orbit, one astronomical unit from the Sun, these devices produce 792 TW of power. Three together produce 2,376 TW of power. Humanity today uses 18 TW of power and generates $82 trillion per year. With the amount of power just described humanity would produce $10.8 quadrillion per year of wealth.

http://ykbcorp.com/downloads/Bae_pho...ulation..pd f

At 10^(-8) Newtons/Watt 2,422.8 tons of thrust is maintained continuously by each station. (7,268.4 tons altogether).

Today the current distance from Earth to Ceres is 1.98 AU.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...Earth+to+Ceres

At one gee to the half way point, say 1 AU, is 48.5 hours of constant acceleration. Ceres based systems pick up the targets and slow them down for another 48.5 hours (at the present distance). 24 solar pumped lasers operate continuously at Ceres to maintain the beams to balance the 3 solar pumped lasers at GEO around Earth. A 150 ton laser powered ship leaves Earth every hour - and takes four days to reach Ceres. Then the ship returns to Earth repeating the cycle every nine days or so.

At 1/16th gee instead of 1 gee - transit time increases to 16 days and a 600 ton ship leaves every 15 minutes, increasing transfer rate to 52 million per year - or 1 million per week - people leaving Earth. Placing 30 mirrors in GEO around Earth and 240 solar pumped lasers around Ceres, maintains 10x this rate - 520 million people per year - to populate rings at the rate of production described.

This system, completed in 2031 AD finds the world inhabited by 8.83 billion persons. Evacuating 520 million people a year starting that year

http://www.space.com/32026-photon-pr...hree-days.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhUasBcoj-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_-teBjZ4w

Year Earth Ceres Rings

2031 8,830.0 0.0 0
2032 8,410.7 520.0 6
2033 7,986.5 1,045.9 12
2034 7,557.6 1,577.9 18

2035 7,123.7 2,115.8 24
2036 6,685.0 2,660.0 30
2037 6,241.2 3,210.3 36
2038 5,792.3 3,766.9 42
2039 5,338.3 4,329.8 48

2040 4,879.2 4,899.2 54
2041 4,414.8 5,475.0 60
2042 3,945.2 6,057.4 66
2043 3,470.1 6,646.5 72
2044 2,989.7 7,242.3 78

2045 2,503.8 7,844.8 84
2046 2,012.3 8,454.3 90
2047 1,515.3 9,070.6 96
2048 1,012.5 9,694.1 102
2049 504.1 10,324.6 108

2050 500.0 10,948.0 114
2051 500.0 11,578.5 120
2052 500.0 12,216.2 126
2053 500.0 12,861.1 132