!!! Black Hole Gravity - speed of gravity

How can black holes have gravity when nothing can get out because escape
speed is greater than the speed of light?

"Aunt Buffy" wrote in news:9z5Ac.261$Mx.8@newsfe2-
gui.server.ntli.net:

How can black holes have gravity when nothing can get out because escape
speed is greater than the speed of light?



Physics FAQ:

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...lack_gravity.h
tml

LK

Because it is their GRAVITY that pulls everything into the Black Hole.


--
Dragons Must Fly when Thread's in the Sky

www.starlords.org

"Aunt Buffy" wrote in message
...
How can black holes have gravity when nothing can get out because
escape
speed is greater than the speed of light?




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From Aunt Buffy:

How can black holes have gravity when
nothing can get out because escape
speed is greater than the speed of light?

Good question. Many researchers believe gravity "propagates" from its
source at the speed of light. If this is so, how does a black hole's
gravity 'get out' of the event horizon, apparently with total ease? oc

A recent experiment measured gravity and concluded that it travels at the
speed of light. Thus if the sun disappeared Earth would continue in its
orbit for a 8 minutes before going off on a "tangent".

So if the speed of gravity is "the speed of light" how can it escape (and
e.g. force an accompanying star to shed its material to feed the black
hole)?

Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th pointed me to
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...ack_gravity.ht
ml

My interpretation is: "Gravity waves" that we see outside of the blackhole
were generated before the formation of the black hole and that due to the
time dilation effect take "a long time" to emerge and become noticable to
us( outside of the event horizon). Thus the gravity we are seeing outside of
the black hole now could well have been generated 10000years ago (more
likely longer ago). The gravity waves since the creation of the black hole
are not able to escape.

Am I out of my depth?



"Aunt Buffy" wrote in message
...
How can black holes have gravity when nothing can get out because escape
speed is greater than the speed of light?

"Aunt Buffy" wrote in message
newsU8Ac.4$wS4.2@newsfe6-win...

Am I out of my depth?

Yes, but you're in good company. g

From Aunt Buffy:

A recent experiment measured gravity
and concluded that it travels at the speed of light.

Yeah, that was the Fomalant-Kopeikin experiment. Touted as measuring the
"speed of gravity", it was a unique, roundabout way of measuring the
speed of light, nothing more, nothing lass. See-
http://www.space,com/scienceastronom...ed_030116.html

Llanzlan Klazmon The 15th pointed me
to -
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...k_gravity.html

Hoo boy. "Fossil fields" no less. And 'virtual gravitons' (!), virtual
photons, and what else.. angels, imps, and Sky Pixies.. all to explain
how gravity 'gets out' of a black hole. Hmm..

My interpretation is: "Gravity waves" that we see outside of the
blackhole were
generated before the formation of the
black hole and that due to the time
dilation effect take "a long time" to
emerge and become noticable to
us....The gravity waves since the
creation of the black hole are not able to
escape.

Am I out of my depth?

A bit out of your tree, perhaps. But you're certainly not alone. The
mainstream does not grasp the clear distinction between gravity and
'gravity waves'. The latter should more correctly be defined as _spatial
acoustic pressure waves_ in the fabric of space, analogous to sound
waves in air (jb's protestations notwithstanding). And these mis-named
'gravity waves' DO propagate at c.

They are _related_ to gravity, and are generated by massive
gravitational events (such as a supernova detonation or a binary BH
coalescence), but they are NOT gravity.
The mainstream's void-space paradigm(VSP) precludes the
understanding of gravity as the FLOW of the spatial medium into a
gravitating mass. Whether the mass is a normal star or a black hole is
irrelevant. The VSP precludes understanding that gravity's influence is
_instantaneous irrespective of distance_ just as Newton originally
observed. And it's instantaneous with or without an intervening event
horizon.
While this may be at odds with the interpretation of GR
on the "speed of gravity", it is a fact. If it's not, and space is a
"void", then we're stuck with "fossil fields", 'virtual gravitons',
virtual photons, angels, imps, and Sky Pixies. oc

AAK.. Make that http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ed_030116.html

AAK.. Make that http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ed_030116.html

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
...

A bit out of your tree, perhaps. But you're certainly not alone. The
mainstream does not grasp the clear distinction between gravity and
'gravity waves'. The latter should more correctly be defined as _spatial
acoustic pressure waves_ in the fabric of space, analogous to sound
waves in air (jb's protestations notwithstanding).

To any following this thread ...
If you have any inclination of discussing such matters outside of the wild
and wacky world of "alt.astronomy" (read - "with sane people") you would be
best served to disregard BS's (OH, I like that! ... it works on so may
different levels!) fantasies in their entirety.

There is NO longitudinal component to Gravitational Waves.


And these mis-named
'gravity waves' DO propagate at c.

They are _related_ to gravity, and are generated by massive
gravitational events (such as a supernova detonation or a binary BH
coalescence), but they are NOT gravity.
The mainstream's void-space paradigm(VSP) precludes the
understanding of gravity as the FLOW of the spatial medium into a
gravitating mass. Whether the mass is a normal star or a black hole is
irrelevant. The VSP precludes understanding that gravity's influence is
_instantaneous irrespective of distance_ just as Newton originally
observed. And it's instantaneous with or without an intervening event
horizon.
While this may be at odds with the interpretation of GR
on the "speed of gravity", it is a fact.

A fact, is it???


If it's not, and space is a
"void", then we're stuck with "fossil fields", 'virtual gravitons',
virtual photons, angels, imps, and Sky Pixies. oc