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Carl Sagan and marijuana?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 5th 04, 07:06 PM
triples
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

I just read in an article in the San Francisco Chronicle
that Carl Sagan did some of his best thinking while
stoned. Is this true? Does anyone know more about this?
Thanks.


Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.

My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.

Also - that he could have done more and better work if he
had not used any narcotic. Many very bright and creative
people have worked under the influence of various chemicals
but my opinion is that it distracts them and it lowers their
grasp of reality.


Charles Phillips
"Drink Upstream Of The Herd, Get A Macintosh"
note feeble anti-spam attempt on Reply-To address
  #2  
Old May 5th 04, 10:44 PM
JimO
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?


"triples" wrote in message
news:40992cc6.4d0.41@news2...
Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.
My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.



I second Charles' thoughts.....


  #3  
Old May 5th 04, 11:48 PM
Herb Schaltegger
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

In article ,
Jim Davis wrote:

Guido Marx wrote:

1. It's easy to make claims about dead people.


Of course - Mr. Sagans estate is certainly entitled to sue
people for slander or libel. His name is still worth lots of
money - so I'm sure the damages would be substantial. To my
knowledge - Sagan's estate hasn't done anything.


My understanding is that you can't slander or libel the dead. You
can call Sagan a serial killer on a billboard in Times Square and
Sagan's estate can't do a thing about it.

Jim Davis


That's the Anglo-American common law rule and has been for centuries.
However, defamation is a state-law matter and I wouldn't put it past
certain state legislatures to adopt statutes in derrogation of the
common law in order to appease special interests. I know Tennessee's
legislature modified the common law with regard to certain publicity
interests to keep Elvis' estate happy and I wouldn't be at all surprised
to learn that California and perhaps NY might have done the same.
Tennessee did it so that the King's estate might still rake in the $$$
for use of his likeness and image on things like mugs, T-shirts, etc.
Typically, the rule had been that one's interest in one's likeness or
image ended with death. Not anymore in this state and quite possibly
many others. So, having deemed that a man several decades dead can
still rake in millions of dollars from the sale of bundt cake pans in
his likeness, it's a very small step to take to decide that his Estate
also has an interest in his reputation, thus opening up the law of
defamation to include defaming the dead.

I note (with more than a trace of cynicism) that this sort of thinking
is the same profit-above-all thinking that has led to the current
extension of copyrights until the end of the human race or the heat
death of the universe, whichever comes last. :-/

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html
  #4  
Old May 6th 04, 01:16 AM
Hop David
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?



Herb Schaltegger wrote:
In article ,
Jim Davis wrote:


Guido Marx wrote:


1. It's easy to make claims about dead people.

Of course - Mr. Sagans estate is certainly entitled to sue
people for slander or libel. His name is still worth lots of
money - so I'm sure the damages would be substantial. To my
knowledge - Sagan's estate hasn't done anything.


My understanding is that you can't slander or libel the dead. You
can call Sagan a serial killer on a billboard in Times Square and
Sagan's estate can't do a thing about it.

Jim Davis



That's the Anglo-American common law rule and has been for centuries.
However, defamation is a state-law matter and I wouldn't put it past
certain state legislatures to adopt statutes in derrogation of the
common law in order to appease special interests. I know Tennessee's
legislature modified the common law with regard to certain publicity
interests to keep Elvis' estate happy and I wouldn't be at all surprised
to learn that California and perhaps NY might have done the same.
Tennessee did it so that the King's estate might still rake in the $$$
for use of his likeness and image on things like mugs, T-shirts, etc.
Typically, the rule had been that one's interest in one's likeness or
image ended with death. Not anymore in this state and quite possibly
many others. So, having deemed that a man several decades dead can
still rake in millions of dollars from the sale of bundt cake pans in
his likeness, it's a very small step to take to decide that his Estate
also has an interest in his reputation, thus opening up the law of
defamation to include defaming the dead.


Sagan was evidently sensitive to use of his name while alive:

"According to Hugh Madison he was also a jerk:"

"Sagan was known to have a bit of an ego. In 1994, Apple Computer began
developing the Power Macintosh 7100. They chose the internal code name
"Sagan", in honor of the astronomer. Though the project name was
strictly internal and never used in public marketing, when Sagan learned
of this internal usage, he sued Apple Computer to use a different
project name. Though Sagan lost the suit, Apple engineers complied with
his demands anyway, renaming the project "Butthead Astronomer". Sagan
sued Apple for libel over the new name, claiming that it subjected him
to contempt and ridicule. Sagan lost this lawsuit as well."

from
http://homepage.mac.com/pblake/webpa...77/E189953942/



I note (with more than a trace of cynicism) that this sort of thinking
is the same profit-above-all thinking that has led to the current
extension of copyrights until the end of the human race or the heat
death of the universe, whichever comes last. :-/


Eisner should be hung by his balls.

--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html

  #5  
Old May 6th 04, 02:52 AM
Scott Lowther
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

JimO wrote:

"triples" wrote in message
news:40992cc6.4d0.41@news2...
Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.
My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.


I second Charles' thoughts.....


Indeed. Back in college days, I knew numerous people who swore up and
down that pot made them more interesting, had more fascinating and
intellectual conversations and whatnot. I finally got the opportunity to
observe them... and noted that it turned them into zombies, about as
interesting as John Kerry. They just *thought* they were more
interesting.

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address
  #6  
Old May 6th 04, 02:59 AM
Earl Colby Pottinger
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

"JimO" :

"triples" wrote in message
news:40992cc6.4d0.41@news2...
Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.
My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.



I second Charles' thoughts.....


Since I don't drink or smoke I get to be the driver for those who do. And I
too observe that under the influence people say the dumbest things while
still thinking that they are the smartest person on Earth.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
  #7  
Old May 6th 04, 04:03 AM
Terrell Miller
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

"Earl Colby Pottinger" wrote in message
...
"JimO" :

"triples" wrote in message
news:40992cc6.4d0.41@news2...
Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.
My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.



I second Charles' thoughts.....


I went through a mini-stoner phase in college. Having two consecutive
Deadhead roommates made that fairly inevitable.

The thing about marijuana is, all that stuff you find absolutely
astoundlingly mind-bogglingly owwowoh**** funny or profound or freaky or
whatever...a couple of days later you see the same thing and it's *nothing*.

Case in point: we'd be watching TV and some commercial would come on and it
would be the greatest thing in the world, just really hilarious and absurd
and everything. Next time I saw the commercial cold sober, I'd have to
actively concentrae on it just for it to register at all. Not even slightly
funny, not profound, not even interesting, just another commercial.

But when you're stoned it's supercallafrabulistic.

too observe that under the influence people say the dumbest things while
still thinking that they are the smartest person on Earth.


hell, lots of people do that sober. Jon Miller springs immediately to mind
g

--
Terrell Miller


"At one point we were this Progressive edgy group and we can't really equate
that with Brother Bear so I don't know really."
-Tony Banks


  #8  
Old May 6th 04, 08:40 AM
Pat Flannery
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Posts: n/a
Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?



JimO wrote:

Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.
My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.




I second Charles' thoughts.....


All in all, after seeing Dr. Sagan far too many times on "The Tonight
Show", and reading one too many articles of his in the "Parade" Sunday
supplement, I must echo Perfect Tommy's comment in "Buckaroo Banzai":
"Mr. Wizard _WAS_ a great scientist!"

Tripping through the cosmos in my "Bong of the imagination; as organic
as a reefer seed"...
Pat

  #9  
Old May 6th 04, 10:57 AM
Ruediger Klaehn
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Posts: n/a
Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

triples wrote:

I just read in an article in the San Francisco Chronicle
that Carl Sagan did some of his best thinking while
stoned. Is this true? Does anyone know more about this?
Thanks.


Not to begin another boring pro- or con- substance
discussion, but he did openly discuss his use of marijuana.
He said that some of his best work was done while under the
influence.

My own limited experience makes me say that he probably
THOUGHT that his best work was done under those conditions.

ROTFL

I also had that experience. When you are under influence of MJ, you often
believe that your thoughts are profound and revolutionary. When you are
sober again you probably do not remember them, so there is no way to tell
if they really were.

I once did the experiment of writing down my thoughts under influence and
then reading them again when I was sober. There were some interesting
thoughts, but most of it was just unbelievably trivial.

Also - that he could have done more and better work if he
had not used any narcotic. Many very bright and creative
people have worked under the influence of various chemicals
but my opinion is that it distracts them and it lowers their
grasp of reality.

I agree. Recreational MJ consumption can be fun and is not as addictive or
unhealthy as nicotine consumption. But when you think that MJ makes you
*think* better that might be an indication of a substance abuse problem.

That said, there are definitely some drugs that make you work better for a
limited time. Amphetamine (speed) and caffeine (my favorite) for example.
But MJ is definitely not among them.
  #10  
Old May 6th 04, 03:58 PM
TKalbfus
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Default Carl Sagan and marijuana?

Since I don't drink or smoke I get to be the driver for those who do. And I
too observe that under the influence people say the dumbest things while
still thinking that they are the smartest person on Earth.


Looks like we found a cure for mental retardation.
 




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