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Light speed invariance proof is circular!



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 6th 11, 08:22 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
abzorba
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Posts: 28
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

Kenseto pointed out (on another thread) re the alleged invariance of
light speed:

This is a postulate....never been proven. The speed of light is a
defined constant. To do that physicists define the length of a meter
as 1/299,792,458 light-second. As you can see with this definition of
a meter length the speed of light is always 299,792,458 meters/
second.
This is a circular definition....the speed of light is defined by the
speed of light!!!!!
A new theory of relativity called IRT is invented. IRT resolvces all
the paradoxes encountered by SR due to the circular definition for
the
speed of light. A paper on IRT is available in the following link:
http://www.modelmechanics,org/2011irt.dtg.pdf

Of course, why did I not see this myself??!! Now the whole metric
system is diddled to prop up this fershlugginer bunch of Satanic
lies!!!!

But there's a way out! YES INDEEDY. You see, they might have redefined
the meter according to the "invariant" speed of light, but we can get
back at the Beast worshippers by making sure we never use the metric
system, invented by those cheese-eating surrender monkeys the French.
We can use the good ole US OF A feet and miles system. THAT will put a
stop to that little gallop, my oath it will, yes indeedy. So repeat
after me:

I wanna be wid Jesus at the love feast,
So down wid the U.N.
and let's knacker the Beast.

Myles (the scales have fallen from my eyes) Paulsen


  #2  
Old June 6th 11, 11:52 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
eric gisse
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Posts: 303
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

abzorba wrote in news:938139c5-dc57-48b0-b7f8-
:

Kenseto pointed out (on another thread) re the alleged invariance of
light speed:


kenseto is an idiot. Do some light reading so you don't sound like a
kenseto.

[snip rest]

  #3  
Old June 6th 11, 01:53 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
Vilas Tamhane
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Posts: 52
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

On Jun 6, 12:22*am, abzorba wrote:
Kenseto pointed out (on another thread) re the alleged invariance of
light speed:

This is a postulate....never been proven. The speed of light is a
defined constant. To do that physicists define the length of a meter
as 1/299,792,458 light-second. As you can see with this definition of
a meter length the speed of light is always 299,792,458 meters/
second.
This is a circular definition....the speed of light is defined by the
speed of light!!!!!
A new theory of relativity called IRT is invented. IRT resolvces all
the paradoxes encountered by SR due to the circular definition for
the
speed of light. A paper on IRT is available in the following link:http://www.modelmechanics,org/2011irt.dtg.pdf

Of course, why did I not see this myself??!! Now the whole metric
system is diddled to prop up this fershlugginer bunch of Satanic
lies!!!!

But there's a way out! YES INDEEDY. You see, they might have redefined
the meter according to the "invariant" speed of light, but we can get
back at the Beast worshippers by making sure we never use the metric
system, invented by those cheese-eating surrender monkeys the French.
We can use the good ole US OF A feet and miles system. THAT will put a
stop to that little gallop, my oath it will, yes indeedy. So repeat
after me:

I wanna be wid Jesus at the love feast,
So down wid the U.N.
and let's knacker the Beast.

Myles (the scales have fallen from my eyes) Paulsen



Speed of light has to be constant with respect to some frame. In
absence of ether, we can say that light has constant speed with
respect to universal frame. In that case, light has to be independent
of the velocity of the source. This is of course experimentally
observed. But in that case electrodynamics differs from material
mechanics. Every frame has some velocity w.r.t. frame of light.
Therefore velocity of light cannot be same in every inertial frame.
  #4  
Old June 6th 11, 02:56 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
dlzc
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Posts: 1,426
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

Dear abzorba:

On Jun 6, 12:22*am, abzorba wrote:
Kenseto pointed out (on another thread)
re the alleged invariance of light speed:


The light speed postulate is actually superfluous. Maxwell requires
that light speed be the same constant for all inertial observers. So
think of the 2nd postulate as highlighting which of the "laws of
physics" is important to the derivation that then follows.

Of course, why did I not see this
myself??!! Now the whole metric system is
diddled to prop up this fershlugginer
bunch of Satanic lies!!!!


Its only self consistent, which is more than can be said for anything
KenSeto published.

But there's a way out! YES INDEEDY. You
see, they might have redefined the meter
according to the "invariant" speed of
light, but we can get back at the Beast
worshippers by making sure we never use
the metric system, invented by those
cheese-eating surrender monkeys the French.


Ooooh, Pentcho Valev is going to be ****ed...

We can use the good ole US OF A feet and
miles system.


Which has been normalized to the metric standard.

THAT will put a stop to that little gallop,
my oath it will, yes indeedy. So repeat
after me:

I wanna be wid Jesus at the love feast,
So down wid the U.N.
and let's knacker the Beast.


If you keep your tongue in your cheek much longer, you'll develop a
facial deformity... Also, if someone raps the bottom of your chin,
you risk biting your tongue.

David A. Smith
  #5  
Old June 6th 11, 03:22 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
Dono.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 83
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

On Jun 6, 7:53*am, Vilas Tamhane wrote:

Therefore velocity of light cannot be same in every inertial frame.


The Vilas Tamhane imbecile has spoken.

  #6  
Old June 7th 11, 12:30 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
xxein[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

On Jun 6, 3:22*am, abzorba wrote:
Kenseto pointed out (on another thread) re the alleged invariance of
light speed:

This is a postulate....never been proven. The speed of light is a
defined constant. To do that physicists define the length of a meter
as 1/299,792,458 light-second. As you can see with this definition of
a meter length the speed of light is always 299,792,458 meters/
second.
This is a circular definition....the speed of light is defined by the
speed of light!!!!!


xxein: Prove the invariance of a meter and/or a second. Have you
ever heard of length contraction or time dilation?

One thing for sure. A trillion more idiots can live on the point of a
pin than can know anything at all about the universe (and beyond) that
they find themselves in.

With that said, I hope you don't know how to educate or precreate.
  #7  
Old June 7th 11, 01:17 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
Tom Roberts
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Posts: 344
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

abzorba wrote:
[...]


The re-definition of the meter in 1983 was based on extensive measurements that
showed that the speed of light is indeed constant. Those experiments used
pre-1983 definitions that were not circular.


Tom Roberts
  #8  
Old June 7th 11, 01:31 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
kenseto[_1_]
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Posts: 418
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

On Jun 6, 8:17*pm, Tom Roberts wrote:
abzorba wrote:
[...]


The re-definition of the meter in 1983 was based on extensive measurements that
showed that the speed of light is indeed constant. Those experiments used
pre-1983 definitions that were not circular.


Sure it is circular.....the one-way speed of light never been
determined experimentally. Phycists refused to do such measurements
because they know that the value for the one way speed of light is not
a constant c as claimed by SR....the value foe OWLS is distance
dependent. The one-way speed of light is isotropic so phycists do all
sorts of one-way isotropy measurements.
The two-way speed of light was measured experimentally but the
distances between the sources and the detectors were measured using
Euclidean geometry and the bogus assumption that light follows a
straight line from the source to the target.


  #9  
Old June 7th 11, 06:21 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
Inertial
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Posts: 73
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

"abzorba" wrote in message
...

Kenseto pointed out (on another thread) re the alleged invariance of
light speed:

This is a postulate....never been proven.


Just because something is postulated to be true .. that doesn't mean you
can't prove it. A postulate is just a 'what if'. Relativity (as first put
forward) was effectively a 'what if the speed of light we the same for any
(inertial) observer regardless of the speed of the source .. what would that
mean for relationship of measurements'. If you then do some experiments
that show that 'what-if' to be true, then that's fine. If you do some that
show the 'what-if' to be false .. then the 'theory' that is the result of
assuming the what-if to be true is discarded. That's how science and logic
work.

The speed of light is a
defined constant.


It is the speed of light. We can't define what is it. We can only measure
it. What we *can* define are the *units* we use to measure it .. units are
completely arbitrary.

Some nice sets of units (other than SI) are chose where you end up with the
speed of light as a value of 1. Very handy.

A particular value for c in some set of units if just a number .. that value
of it doesn't really matter in this case (not like numbers like 'pi', or 'e'
where it is the number itself that is important). The numeric value of c
can be set to any number one wants by choosing units appropriately.

That doesn't mean we are MAKING the actual speed of light any different ..
just the number we assign to that particular speed .. ie the meaning of the
numbers that describe it.

Do you understand that ?

  #10  
Old June 7th 11, 06:23 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.physics.relativity
PD
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Posts: 1,572
Default Light speed invariance proof is circular!

On Jun 7, 7:31*am, kenseto wrote:
On Jun 6, 8:17*pm, Tom Roberts wrote:

abzorba wrote:
[...]


The re-definition of the meter in 1983 was based on extensive measurements that
showed that the speed of light is indeed constant. Those experiments used
pre-1983 definitions that were not circular.


Sure it is circular.....the one-way speed of light never been
determined experimentally.


Nor was it needed to. Prior to the 1983 redefinition of the meter, all
that was required was the combination of a 2-way light speed
measurement and isotropy measurement. This is completely sufficient to
determine one-way light speed measurement.

Phycists refused to do such measurements
because they know that the value for the one way speed of light is not
a constant c as claimed by SR....the value foe OWLS is distance
dependent.


This has already been ruled out by existing measurements.

The one-way speed of light is isotropic so phycists do all
sorts of one-way isotropy measurements.
The two-way speed of light was measured experimentally but the
distances between the sources and the detectors were measured using
Euclidean geometry and the bogus assumption that light follows a
straight line from the source to the target.


 




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