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Simple question about SR paradox



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 28th 11, 02:18 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Peter Webb[_4_]
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Posts: 407
Default Simple question about speed of force.


"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
|
| "Speed of force", huh?
|
| What units would that have, exactly?
|

Ummm ask any of ummm your fellow ummm cranks talking about the ummm "speed
of ummm gravity, huh", ummm ****wit.


So you don't know either?

Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?


  #12  
Old May 28th 11, 02:35 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Androcles[_43_]
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Posts: 87
Default Simple question about speed of force.


"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
|
| "Androcles" wrote in message
| ...
|
| "Peter Webb" wrote in message
| u...
| |
| | "Speed of force", huh?
| |
| | What units would that have, exactly?
| |
|
| Ummm ask any of ummm your fellow ummm cranks talking about the ummm
"speed
| of ummm gravity, huh", ummm ****wit.
|
|
| So you don't know either?
|
Nope.

| Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?

Ummm like "Let's say there are ummm like two ummm like twins", do you ummm
mean? You tell me, crank.
How much time does it take for light to travel the length of one of these
two
twin rods and back again ... the red one, crank:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SR4kids/x'=x-vt.gif



  #13  
Old May 28th 11, 04:03 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Darwin123
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Posts: 247
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On May 27, 9:35*pm, "Androcles"
Ummm like "Let's say there are ummm like two ummm like twins", do you ummm
mean? You tell me, crank.
How much time does it take for light to travel the length of one of these
two
twin rods and back again ... the red one, crank:
*http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SR4kids/x'=x-vt.gif

Time in the red frame or time in the blue frame?
They are different.

  #14  
Old May 28th 11, 06:47 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Sam Wormley[_2_]
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Posts: 3,966
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On 5/28/11 10:03 AM, Darwin123 wrote:
On May 27, 9:35 pm, "Androcles"
Ummm like "Let's say there are ummm like two ummm like twins", do you ummm
mean? You tell me, crank.
How much time does it take for light to travel the length of one of these
two
twin rods and back again ... the red one, crank:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SR4kids/x'=x-vt.gif

Time in the red frame or time in the blue frame?
They are different.


http://esc.kelder.ee/mulonigav/sys/h...7b6d9defeb 73
  #15  
Old May 28th 11, 10:46 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Darwin123
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Posts: 247
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On May 27, 9:18*pm, "Peter Webb" So you don't know either?

Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?

I don't think the phrase "speed of force" is really meaningless.
However, a single force can't literally have a speed. I think they are
referring to the delay between the action and the reaction.
General rule for all mechanics: For every action, there is a
reaction. In other words, if body 1 exerts a force on body 2, then
body 2 exerts a force on body 1 that is equal in magnitude but
opposite in direction. However, what varies with the mechanics is the
delay between these two forces.
1) According to Newton's Laws of mechanics, there is no delay between
the action and the reaction. Both forces are simultaneously equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.
2) According to Maxwell's equations, there is a finite time delay
between the action and the reaction when electromagnetic fields are
involved. The forces at different times are equal in magnitude and
opposite in direction.
3) According to SR, there is a finite time delay between the action
and the reaction always. The forces at different times are equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.

When people are talking about the "speed of a force", they are
generally talking about the distance between the two bodies and the
time delay between action and reaction. In GR, the "speed" both
electromagnetic force and gravity is "c".
According to
  #16  
Old May 28th 11, 10:51 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Darwin123
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Posts: 247
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On May 28, 1:28*pm, "Androcles"
So you believe in Maxwell's magical aether, Judas.


Maxwell's equations

**** off, Blind Judas, come back when you can see pictures like NORMAL people.

I didn't say that I believed in an aether. You said that I
believed in an aether. I simply said that I believe in Maxwell's
equations. You are the one who equated Maxwell's equations with an
aether.
I also never said that Einstein was wrong. I claimed that he never
said the speed of light was either c+v or c-v. You are the one who
claimed that Einstein said that the speed of light was c+v and c-v.
You still haven't been able to cite a quote from Einstein where he
said that the speed of light was c+v or the speed of light was c-v.
You just keep deflecting.
You never will admit that Einstein never said those things.

  #17  
Old May 28th 11, 11:42 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Henry Wilson DSc.
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Posts: 451
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123
wrote:

On May 27, 9:18*pm, "Peter Webb" So you don't know either?

Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?

I don't think the phrase "speed of force" is really meaningless.
However, a single force can't literally have a speed. I think they are
referring to the delay between the action and the reaction.
General rule for all mechanics: For every action, there is a
reaction. In other words, if body 1 exerts a force on body 2, then
body 2 exerts a force on body 1 that is equal in magnitude but
opposite in direction. However, what varies with the mechanics is the
delay between these two forces.
1) According to Newton's Laws of mechanics, there is no delay between
the action and the reaction. Both forces are simultaneously equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.
2) According to Maxwell's equations, there is a finite time delay
between the action and the reaction when electromagnetic fields are
involved. The forces at different times are equal in magnitude and
opposite in direction.
3) According to SR, there is a finite time delay between the action
and the reaction always. The forces at different times are equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.

When people are talking about the "speed of a force", they are
generally talking about the distance between the two bodies and the
time delay between action and reaction. In GR, the "speed" both
electromagnetic force and gravity is "c".
According to


The speed of gravity is the cause of Mercury's anomalous precession.

M M'
\ \






\
S P

The force exerted by the sun on M doesn't act till the planet is at M'.
Therefore, the direction of that force is always forward of the sun, towards
P, causing an increase in precession of the ellipse.


SR contradicts itself. Why try to defend any of it?
http://www.scisite.info/wilson's_paradox.jpg

Henry Wilson DSc
Self-delusion is the Scourge of the SRian..
  #18  
Old May 29th 11, 12:11 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Androcles[_43_]
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Posts: 87
Default Simple question about speed of force.


"Henry Wilson DSc." ..@.. wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123
| wrote:
|
| On May 27, 9:18 pm, "Peter Webb" So you don't know either?
|
| Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?
| I don't think the phrase "speed of force" is really meaningless.
| However, a single force can't literally have a speed. I think they are
| referring to the delay between the action and the reaction.
| General rule for all mechanics: For every action, there is a
| reaction. In other words, if body 1 exerts a force on body 2, then
| body 2 exerts a force on body 1 that is equal in magnitude but
| opposite in direction. However, what varies with the mechanics is the
| delay between these two forces.
| 1) According to Newton's Laws of mechanics, there is no delay between
| the action and the reaction. Both forces are simultaneously equal in
| magnitude and opposite in direction.
| 2) According to Maxwell's equations, there is a finite time delay
| between the action and the reaction when electromagnetic fields are
| involved. The forces at different times are equal in magnitude and
| opposite in direction.
| 3) According to SR, there is a finite time delay between the action
| and the reaction always. The forces at different times are equal in
| magnitude and opposite in direction.
|
| When people are talking about the "speed of a force", they are
| generally talking about the distance between the two bodies and the
| time delay between action and reaction. In GR, the "speed" both
| electromagnetic force and gravity is "c".
| According to
|
| The speed of gravity

Suppose I place two bar magnets on my desk just far enough apart
so that they do not move, and any lesser distance will result in them
snapping together. Let us call this distance D.
I now tap the desk lightly and the vibration varies the friction between
the desk surface and the magnets. SNAP! The magnets fly together.
It takes a finite time for the magnets to move a distance D to a
distance zero, so we'll call that t.
When they were D apart, resting for an hour before I tapped, what
was the speed of force between them?
i) Everybody knows it was c
ii) it was the speed of magnetism
iii) it was infinite
iv) obviously it is D/t
v) obviously it is D per hour.
vi) force is instantaneous, it doesn't have a speed.
vii) Blind Judas Rosen doesn't think.
viii) Duckfoot hasn't got a ****ing clue either.
ix) Ralph Rabbidge hasn't got a ****ing clue either.


  #19  
Old May 29th 11, 01:20 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
eric gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 342
Default Simple question about speed of force.

...@..(Henry Wilson DSc.) wrote in
:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123
wrote:

On May 27, 9:18*pm, "Peter Webb" So you don't know either?

Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?

I don't think the phrase "speed of force" is really meaningless.
However, a single force can't literally have a speed. I think they are
referring to the delay between the action and the reaction.
General rule for all mechanics: For every action, there is a
reaction. In other words, if body 1 exerts a force on body 2, then
body 2 exerts a force on body 1 that is equal in magnitude but
opposite in direction. However, what varies with the mechanics is the
delay between these two forces.
1) According to Newton's Laws of mechanics, there is no delay between
the action and the reaction. Both forces are simultaneously equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.
2) According to Maxwell's equations, there is a finite time delay
between the action and the reaction when electromagnetic fields are
involved. The forces at different times are equal in magnitude and
opposite in direction.
3) According to SR, there is a finite time delay between the action
and the reaction always. The forces at different times are equal in
magnitude and opposite in direction.

When people are talking about the "speed of a force", they are
generally talking about the distance between the two bodies and the
time delay between action and reaction. In GR, the "speed" both
electromagnetic force and gravity is "c".
According to


The speed of gravity is the cause of Mercury's anomalous precession.

M M'
\ \






\
S P


Since you are so sure, let us see the calculation.


The force exerted by the sun on M doesn't act till the planet is at
M'. Therefore, the direction of that force is always forward of the
sun, towards P, causing an increase in precession of the ellipse.


It would also make the orbit unstable, as detailed in any decent
classical mechanics textbook, eg Goldstein.

Why don't you show us the calculation?



SR contradicts itself. Why try to defend any of it?
http://www.scisite.info/wilson's_paradox.jpg

Henry Wilson DSc
Self-delusion is the Scourge of the SRian..


  #20  
Old May 29th 11, 01:51 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math,sci.astro
Henry Wilson DSc.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 451
Default Simple question about speed of force.

On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:11:36 +0100, "Androcles"
wrote:


"Henry Wilson DSc." ..@.. wrote in message
.. .
| On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:46:52 -0700 (PDT), Darwin123
| wrote:
|
| On May 27, 9:18 pm, "Peter Webb" So you don't know either?
|
| Why do cranks invent meaningless terms?
| I don't think the phrase "speed of force" is really meaningless.
| However, a single force can't literally have a speed. I think they are
| referring to the delay between the action and the reaction.
| General rule for all mechanics: For every action, there is a
| reaction. In other words, if body 1 exerts a force on body 2, then
| body 2 exerts a force on body 1 that is equal in magnitude but
| opposite in direction. However, what varies with the mechanics is the
| delay between these two forces.
| 1) According to Newton's Laws of mechanics, there is no delay between
| the action and the reaction. Both forces are simultaneously equal in
| magnitude and opposite in direction.
| 2) According to Maxwell's equations, there is a finite time delay
| between the action and the reaction when electromagnetic fields are
| involved. The forces at different times are equal in magnitude and
| opposite in direction.
| 3) According to SR, there is a finite time delay between the action
| and the reaction always. The forces at different times are equal in
| magnitude and opposite in direction.
|
| When people are talking about the "speed of a force", they are
| generally talking about the distance between the two bodies and the
| time delay between action and reaction. In GR, the "speed" both
| electromagnetic force and gravity is "c".
| According to
|
| The speed of gravity

Suppose I place two bar magnets on my desk just far enough apart
so that they do not move, and any lesser distance will result in them
snapping together. Let us call this distance D.
I now tap the desk lightly and the vibration varies the friction between
the desk surface and the magnets. SNAP! The magnets fly together.
It takes a finite time for the magnets to move a distance D to a
distance zero, so we'll call that t.
When they were D apart, resting for an hour before I tapped, what
was the speed of force between them?
i) Everybody knows it was c
ii) it was the speed of magnetism
iii) it was infinite
iv) obviously it is D/t
v) obviously it is D per hour.
vi) force is instantaneous, it doesn't have a speed.
vii) Blind Judas Rosen doesn't think.
viii) Duckfoot hasn't got a ****ing clue either.
ix) Henry Wilsone hasn't got a ****ing clue either.


Silly old pommie engineer type question...

Probably the best indicator of the speed of gravity is the anomalous
precession of the perihelion of Mercury...



SR contradicts itself. Why try to defend any of it?
http://www.scisite.info/wilson's_paradox.jpg

Henry Wilson DSc
Self-delusion is the Scourge of the SRian..
 




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