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Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 16th 10, 08:25 PM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

So the $3.9B question.

No shuttle extension, means there will be "the gap".

How much will it cost us to contract the Russians to send up
an Orion docking adapter for attachment to the shuttle
docking port?

Or is it a de-facto Orion requirement that it be able to
dock with the existing shuttle docking port?

What was the original Constellation CEV plan for this?
Use an Ares V that an Orion would rendevous and dock
with and then tranport to the ISS for installation?

Also AFAICT we have no US equiv to a Progress vehicle.
And no Ares V. So what's the plan?

Dave
  #2  
Old April 16th 10, 09:11 PM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Mike Ross[_5_]
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Posts: 3
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

David Spain wrote:

So the $3.9B question.

No shuttle extension, means there will be "the gap".

How much will it cost us to contract the Russians to send

up
an Orion docking adapter for attachment to the shuttle
docking port?

Or is it a de-facto Orion requirement that it be able to
dock with the existing shuttle docking port?

What was the original Constellation CEV plan for this?
Use an Ares V that an Orion would rendevous and dock
with and then tranport to the ISS for installation?

Also AFAICT we have no US equiv to a Progress vehicle.
And no Ares V. So what's the plan?

Dave


Cygnus and Falcon, private ventures. For years NASA was
decried for preventing private space businesses, now they are
encouraging them (in fact, optimistically betting on them).
The first Dragon launch comes in May (demonstrator only, no
ISS approach). Cross your fingers it is as successful as the
HTV was, which is the other alternative for launching the
docking adapter.

Mike

  #3  
Old April 17th 10, 12:20 AM posted to sci.space.station
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

Mike Ross writes:
Cygnus and Falcon, private ventures. For years NASA was
decried for preventing private space businesses, now they are
encouraging them (in fact, optimistically betting on them).
The first Dragon launch comes in May (demonstrator only, no
ISS approach). Cross your fingers it is as successful as the
HTV was, which is the other alternative for launching the
docking adapter.

Mike


Right, I've been down this path before and how APAS/LIDS
conversion is done via ATLAS was explained to me, by Jorge
IIRC.

But I never inquired way back then as to 'how' ATLAS was
to be delivered. I suppose back then I thought maybe the
last shuttle of an extended shuttle run, but now that
is not possible. Just trying to connect the dots.

Anything about this in 'official' print somewhere?

I've got this link from 2009 on ATLAS

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...-standard.html

but nothing on how to get it there...

Dave
  #4  
Old April 17th 10, 12:22 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

Pat Flannery writes:
Cygnus is supposed to be our Progress equivalent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_spacecraft
...or a unmanned variant of Dragon.


Thanks Pat. Once again my ignorance is on display.
I was aware of the Dragon automated cargo capacity,
sheesh some memory I have, but not Cygnus.

Dave
  #5  
Old April 17th 10, 12:34 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

Didn't cross-post correctly, sorry for the duplicate in sci.space.station...

David Spain writes:
Mike Ross writes:
Cygnus and Falcon, private ventures. For years NASA was
decried for preventing private space businesses, now they are
encouraging them (in fact, optimistically betting on them).
The first Dragon launch comes in May (demonstrator only, no
ISS approach). Cross your fingers it is as successful as the
HTV was, which is the other alternative for launching the
docking adapter.

Mike


Right, I've been down this path before and how APAS/LIDS
conversion is done via ATLAS was explained to me, by Jorge
IIRC.

But I never inquired way back then as to 'how' ATLAS was
to be delivered. I suppose back then I thought maybe the
last shuttle of an extended shuttle run, but now that
is not possible. Just trying to connect the dots.

Anything about this in 'official' print somewhere?

I've got this link from 2009 on ATLAS

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...-standard.html

but nothing on how to get it there...

Dave

  #6  
Old April 17th 10, 01:56 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,901
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

David Spain writes:
Also AFAICT we have no US equiv to a Progress vehicle.
And no Ares V. So what's the plan?


Well OK we have the Cygnus -and/or- Dragon, BUT...

Given it's nature wouldn't an ATLAS (APAS To LIDS Adapter)
be TOO big for either of these? And if so, what about a
Progress or HTV?

Could the installation be completely automated?

-or-

Will this require a special one-off type ELV mission
to get ATLAS into orbit?

-and-

Will it require an Orion/Orion-lite mission to
rendevous/dock with ATLAS and carry it to the ISS
for installation?

Would an Orion-lite be 'light' enough, to stack an
Orion-lite and ATLAS onto a Falcon 9 or Atlas 5
ala the Apollo CM/LM style?

Surely we don't want to wait for the mythical
heavy-lift booster in order to orbit an ATLAS?

According to this article, the original Constellation
plan appearently called for the first two Orion
missions to deliver the new docking adapters to the
ISS:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tellation.html

But this article doesn't mention how the ATLAS gets
to orbit and given the tight margins I find it hard to
believe it was to go up on an Ares-I?

In any case that all seems moot now.

I think this tune needs somthing... hmm....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_cowbell

?

Dave
  #7  
Old April 17th 10, 02:03 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

On 4/16/2010 11:25 AM, David Spain wrote:

Also AFAICT we have no US equiv to a Progress vehicle.


Cygnus is supposed to be our Progress equivalent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_spacecraft
....or a unmanned variant of Dragon.

Pat
  #8  
Old April 17th 10, 04:00 AM posted to sci.space.station
Jorge R. Frank
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Posts: 2,089
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

David Spain wrote:
Mike Ross writes:
Cygnus and Falcon, private ventures. For years NASA was
decried for preventing private space businesses, now they are
encouraging them (in fact, optimistically betting on them).
The first Dragon launch comes in May (demonstrator only, no
ISS approach). Cross your fingers it is as successful as the
HTV was, which is the other alternative for launching the
docking adapter.

Mike


Right, I've been down this path before and how APAS/LIDS
conversion is done via ATLAS was explained to me, by Jorge
IIRC.

But I never inquired way back then as to 'how' ATLAS was
to be delivered. I suppose back then I thought maybe the
last shuttle of an extended shuttle run, but now that
is not possible. Just trying to connect the dots.

Anything about this in 'official' print somewhere?

I've got this link from 2009 on ATLAS

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hy...-standard.html

but nothing on how to get it there...


ATLAS is dead, replaced by CDA, which will fly on HTV in the
unpressurized compartment.
  #9  
Old April 17th 10, 04:05 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Jorge R. Frank
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Posts: 2,089
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

David Spain wrote:
David Spain writes:
Also AFAICT we have no US equiv to a Progress vehicle.
And no Ares V. So what's the plan?


Well OK we have the Cygnus -and/or- Dragon, BUT...

Given it's nature wouldn't an ATLAS (APAS To LIDS Adapter)
be TOO big for either of these? And if so, what about a
Progress or HTV?

Could the installation be completely automated?

-or-

Will this require a special one-off type ELV mission
to get ATLAS into orbit?

-and-

Will it require an Orion/Orion-lite mission to
rendevous/dock with ATLAS and carry it to the ISS
for installation?

Would an Orion-lite be 'light' enough, to stack an
Orion-lite and ATLAS onto a Falcon 9 or Atlas 5
ala the Apollo CM/LM style?

Surely we don't want to wait for the mythical
heavy-lift booster in order to orbit an ATLAS?

According to this article, the original Constellation
plan appearently called for the first two Orion
missions to deliver the new docking adapters to the
ISS:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tellation.html

But this article doesn't mention how the ATLAS gets
to orbit and given the tight margins I find it hard to
believe it was to go up on an Ares-I?


It would have flown on top of the Orion, under a modified boost
protective cover. Obviously Ares I performance was an issue.

ATLAS has been replaced by CDA. ATLAS stood for APAS To LIDS Adapter
System. The APAS was mounted on the PMAs, which themselves were really
just APAS to CBM adapters.

Someone eventually figured out it would be simpler just to make a LIDS
to CBM adapter and cut out the middleman, hence CDA. It replaces both
ATLAS and the PMAs.

CDA is thin enough to fit in the unpressurized compartment of an HTV and
will be installed via the SSRMS on Node 2 forward and zenith. Two HTV
flights will deliver the two CDAs. The PMAs will be moved to unused CBMs
for storage.
  #10  
Old April 17th 10, 05:18 AM posted to sci.space.station,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Who attaches the Orion Docking Adapter to the ISS?

On 4/16/2010 3:22 PM, David Spain wrote:
Pat writes:
Cygnus is supposed to be our Progress equivalent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_spacecraft
...or a unmanned variant of Dragon.


Thanks Pat. Once again my ignorance is on display.
I was aware of the Dragon automated cargo capacity,
sheesh some memory I have, but not Cygnus.


I hadn't even heard of that till a couple of months ago when I was
digging around for info on COTS and ran into it.
I still like the Robot Samurai face peering out of the Japanese HTV
cargo ship: http://spaceflightnow.com/h2b/htv1/090814fueling/
.... no chance at all that that thing will deploy arms and legs when no
one is watching.
But we have a counter for it if it tries anything funny up there...meet
NASA's killer robot that will ride on the last Shuttle flight:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17912_3-20002479-72.html
So what happened to "Robonaut 1"?
Well, rumor has it that the last thing the Columbia astronauts saw was
it crouching on the port wing, tearing a hole in it while laughing
maniacally.
God-Damn Toaster.
God-Damn Cylon Toaster.

Pat
 




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