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  #11  
Old December 19th 18, 08:56 PM posted to sci.astro
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 452
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Thomas Lahn stated
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote
Jan Panteltje wrote:

Maybe you are thinking that the modern weapons like nuclear will kill everything
and everybody.
This is likely not the case,


Sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about.


You better study the subject yourself.


experiments with radiation have shown that new mutations can happen


Your cells cannot mutate if you are dead. Simple logic.


You will be dead only with a close enough hit.
The body has repair mechanisms for damaged DNA.
The survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, F*ckupshima, exist.
Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.

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  #12  
Old December 19th 18, 09:02 PM posted to sci.astro
dlzc
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Posts: 1,426
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Dear Jan Panteltje:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:56:51 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
....
The body has repair mechanisms for damaged DNA.
The survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, F*ckupshima, exist.
Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
.... near a certain dose, and a certain amount of "statistical health" shows up. As if the "once in a life time" shock kicked the immune system into high gear.

David A. Smith
  #13  
Old December 19th 18, 09:54 PM posted to sci.astro
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 452
Default No Alien Visits Ever

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:02:17 -0800 (PST)) it happened dlzc
wrote in
:

Dear Jan Panteltje:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:56:51 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
...
The body has repair mechanisms for damaged DNA.
The survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, F*ckupshima, exist.
Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
... near a certain dose, and a certain amount of "statistical health" shows up. As if the "once in a life time" shock kicked
the immune system into high gear.

David A. Smith


Nice link,
I have been working in a radiation environment, and also am measuring radiation.
Designed and build several GM counters, gamma spectrometer
and now have been running a tritium decay experiment for several years.
Monitor and log radiation here 24/7.
Did some DNA sequencing equipment related work.
Am in electronics.
We had some Chernobyl fallout here too, you were not supposed to eat vegetables from your garden,
where I worked the air conditioning filters were hot and had to be replaced.
First time (was at a big accelerator project) I got faced with radiation counters and test sources I freaked out completely,.
quit the same day.
Serendipity had me working there again years later.
Years after I left I did read in the paper the whole place got contaminated,
Those guys were a bit careless in a way I suppose, same thing that freaked me out that first day.
Now that is so many years ago, way before Chernobyl, and here I am.
I am retired now, should have been dead long ago... ???
gamma spectrometer:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
an other one with a Russian PMT:
http://panteltje.com/pub/gamma_soect...r_IMG_4505.JPG
simple GM counter with military tube:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic/
GPS radiation logger, use foe prospecting, saves track and radiation levels:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/
tritium decay experiment:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/tri_pic/

Website needs updating, mostly old projects.
Was just doing some statistics on the radiation measurement from this year yesterday.
Fun :-)

  #14  
Old December 19th 18, 10:29 PM posted to sci.astro
dlzc
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Posts: 1,426
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Dear Jan Panteltje:

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 1:55:12 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
....
We had some Chernobyl fallout here too, you were not
supposed to eat vegetables from your garden,
where I worked the air conditioning filters were hot
and had to be replaced.

....
Fun :-)


There have been cases where recently-retired dehumidifiers had to be held in storage for a few months, because the radon they had recycled, had decayed into metals that were embedded on their surfaces. Those had to be allowed to decay down enough to dispose of as simple waste.

David A. Smith
  #15  
Old December 19th 18, 11:31 PM posted to sci.astro
Martin Brown[_3_]
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Posts: 177
Default No Alien Visits Ever

On 19/12/2018 19:33, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote
Jan Panteltje wrote:
We see in WW2 for example V1 V1, invention of microwave radar (magnetron),
basically one part of the species trying to outsmart the other part.
War being part of evolution,

It is not. It is *a* way for the development of a species, but it certainly
is not the best way as it can easily lead to the species’ extinction by
self-destruction.


And may yet do so.
He forgot to mention the jet engine and Colossus computer too.

Maybe you are thinking that the modern weapons like nuclear will kill everything
and everybody.
This is likely not the case, […]


Sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about.


He might well be right. A few people have survived well over LD50 for
acute radiation exposure during Chernobyl and other nuclear accidents
like the criticality at Tokaimura. We don't actually know for sure what
percentage of the population are radiation tolerant or to what extent.

You can tolerate a much larger dose over a longer period of time too. A
rough heuristic is that for every 7 fold increase in time after a
nuclear detonation the fallout radioactivity is an order of magnitude
lower. You only need to stay hidden whilst it is very hot outside. A
couple of days to a fortnight later makes a very big difference.

experiments with radiation have shown that new mutations can happen


Your cells cannot mutate if you are dead. Simple logic.


No but some people may be further from the direct effects and their
repair mechanisms better than average and they will go on to breed.

As a concrete example the place where my father worked handled a
chemical that is now banned called beta-naphthylamine to make a
particularly good red dye. It was exceptionally carcinogenic to males
and some salesmen who only visited the site once died of characteristic
bladder cancer soon after as a result. It was shown to be that chemical
at fault and it was ulitmately banned worlwide as were some other
compounds that made it as an unintended byproduct somewhat later.

However, just a handful of people were unaffected including a guy who
shovelled it most of his working life and my father who lived to be 92.
The retirement age for the entire site was lowered to 62 because almost
noone who worked there ever lived to reach 65.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-Naphthylamine

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #16  
Old December 21st 18, 02:29 AM posted to sci.astro
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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Posts: 73
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Jan Panteltje wrote:
Thomas Lahn stated
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Maybe you are thinking that the modern weapons like nuclear will kill everything
and everybody.
This is likely not the case,

Sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about.


You better study the subject yourself.


I *am* studying astrophysics at a university, thank you very much.

experiments with radiation have shown that new mutations can happen


Your cells cannot mutate if you are dead. Simple logic.


You will be dead only with a close enough hit.


Shut up and calculate. Calculate the heat and the pressure wave of a
thermonuclear explosion of Hiroshima dimensions.

That said, there are nuclear weapons that are designed to destroy only
organic tissue, in order to keep the infrastructure intact: neutron bombs.

The body has repair mechanisms for damaged DNA.


Those are only effective if the body can get rid entirely of harmful
radioactive material *within* it.

The main danger of radiation poisoning is not exposure to electromagnetic
radiation from the outside (you can shield yourself from that or avoid the
area), but radioactive gas and dust particles in the air that you inhale, in
the water that you drink (cf. acid rain) and food that you eat; then you die
slowly from them (or you die because you cannot eat or drink anything
without the risk of poisoning yourself; take your pick).

Not only because organic cells are continuously damaged by radiation from
inside the body, but also because this damaging includes the blood cells
(hemocytes), a third (in type) which are a vital part of the immune system
(leukocytes; see below). And you cannot survive without a functioning
immune system (cf. AIDS). Indeed, radiation poisoning (e.g. by Sr-90
emissions) can also cause leukemia, abnormal high numbers of white blood
cells (leukocytes).

So on the one hand your immune system is partially disabled, and you become
an easy target for pathogens (a common cold can kill you then); on the other
hand the part of your immune system that is still working can turn against
you (auto-immune diseases); and third, with less red blood cells
(erythrocytes) transport of oxygen to the cells that desperately need it is
even more reduced (they are damaged, too).

Which is why radiation suits not only have a patch that indicates exposure,
but are *airtight* and include an air *filter*.

You should actually read about (or watch recent documentaries about)
Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those people are still suffering from it, more than
50 years later.

The survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, F*ckupshima, exist.


First of all, apples and oranges.

Atomic bombs (*thermo**nuclear* *weapons*) were dropped at Hiroshima and
Nagasaki in 1945. Such a weapon is based on an *uncontrolled* chain reaction.

Chernobyl was a complete nuclear *reactor* *disaster* in which the reactor
there *exploded* due to improper testing.

_Fukushima_ (not funny) was an almost nuclear reactor catastrophe (rated
serious incident) due to an earthquake which caused a tsunami. Some
reactors had been shut down before the earthquake, most of the running ones
shut down automatically, but not all; so there have been explosions within
the reactors, but it was not so that whole reactors exploded.

In a nuclear reactor, *controlled* chain reactions happens instead. The
main problem with those events was and is that the/sime reactors got
critical or over-critical and now radiation gets out, even if only through
the cracks.

Second, yes, there are survivors, but what a way to survive

Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.


Not funny, too.

--
PointedEars, shaking his head

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
  #17  
Old December 21st 18, 02:38 AM posted to sci.astro
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Dec 2018 12:02:17 -0800 (PST)) it happened dlzc
wrote in
:


Attribution _line_, NOT attribution novel.

Dear Jan Panteltje:


This is NetNews, not e-mail.

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:56:51 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
...
The body has repair mechanisms for damaged DNA.
The survivors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl, F*ckupshima, exist.
Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
... near a certain dose, and a certain amount of "statistical health" shows up. As if the "once in a life time" shock kicked
the immune system into high gear.


As the article says, this is a *hypothesis* and it pertains to *low* *doses*
of ionizing *radiation* only.

All the evidence from Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Chernobyl and Fukushima suggests
that prolonged exposure to radioactive material is dangerous for ones
health and eventually lethal. As I explained, a damaged immune system does
not work properly, so it is quite a stretch to assume that such an immune
system would in some way repair itself. Note that *low* doses would not do
that.

To me, this argument looks a lot like wishful thinking by a clueless person.
Like duck and cover. Probably some people never learn.

--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
  #18  
Old December 21st 18, 07:26 AM posted to sci.astro
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 452
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Thomas Lahn opiniated
In a nuclear reactor, *controlled* chain reactions happens instead. The
main problem with those events was and is that the/sime reactors got
critical or over-critical and now radiation gets out, even if only through
the cracks.

Second, yes, there are survivors, but what a way to survive

Some may have grown pointed ears, but most did not.


Not funny, too.



Actually very funny:-)
You were just spewing a lot of things but did you even read that wikipedia article or learn from it?


--
PointedEars, shaking his head


Beware, shake too fast an it will fall off

It is all a bit of a joke really.
I Germany you see to public paranoia, often lead by a lot of green (colored?) voters,
closing down nuclear plant after nuclear plant.

At the same time thousands die each year in coal mining.

Not so many if any in nuclear power generation.

That made me wonder if - and we see that in F*ckupshima for example,
it is not all about PROPERTY and not about human life.

The idea of having to vacate your property (for 10 years, F*ckupshima people are now already returning)
is a financial issue.
None of these guys died or got sick.

The materialism part of thinking so to speak.
The same greens complain about human made glowballworming and CO2, and close the CO2 free nuclear power plants.

Mass hysteria, paranoia and politics playing it.

China builds nuclear reactor after nuclear reactor maybe even to get clean air and prevent those death in coal mining,
a good policy.
As to the bomb, neutron or otherwise, there are more dangerous weapons.
bit of DNA work and viruses and everybody with pointed ears dies.
It is possible to target race, specific populations etc with the new biological
weapons that nobody has but are on the shelf.
Basically everything can be used for the good AND the bad, that goes for a hammer, a knife,
as well as for nuclear and biology.

So stop wining.

  #19  
Old December 21st 18, 07:44 AM posted to sci.astro
Jan Panteltje
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Posts: 452
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Thomas cried
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
... near a certain dose, and a certain amount of "statistical health" shows up. As if the "once in a life time" shock
kicked
the immune system into high gear.


As the article says, this is a *hypothesis* and it pertains to *low* *doses*
of ionizing *radiation* only.


So you did read it, read it again.


All the evidence from Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Chernobyl and Fukushima suggests
that prolonged exposure to radioactive material is dangerous for ones
health and eventually lethal. As I explained, a damaged immune system does
not work properly, so it is quite a stretch to assume that such an immune
system would in some way repair itself. Note that *low* doses would not do
that.


No it does not.


To me, this argument looks a lot like wishful thinking by a clueless person.
Like duck and cover. Probably some people never learn.


You are uneducated on this subject.
First look at it from the species perspective
In the long ago past radiation levels were way higher,
and yet here we are.

Second you are mortal by design, if not from radiation then you will die from something else.
Whatever comes first :-)
The species multiplies (well not in Germany it seems, birth rate is way down and now they import
to keep it up I think, buy anyways),

Man twenty first political circus is . . really IS amusing.

Maybe the bombs will fall soon, IMNSHO wars have a purpose,
if it was not only to show what is right and what works and what not,
and get rid of all the bull****.

After that it will start all over again.

From 'life's' perspective whatever it is and pervades the universe
a universe where stars are born stars explode if you will, we are just a chemical reaction,
the noise you make is insignificant as sun will go its way, 'bang if there was one will go its way
all your physics is no more than the ant creeping up the wall having an opinion.

It is allright,
And the fact that it is allright
is what you need to see beyond your own ego and limits and [mis]conceptions.


  #20  
Old December 21st 18, 10:42 PM posted to sci.astro
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
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Posts: 73
Default No Alien Visits Ever

Jan Panteltje wrote:
Thomas cried
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
... near a certain dose, and a certain amount of "statistical health" shows up. As if the "once in a life time" shock
kicked
the immune system into high gear.

As the article says, this is a *hypothesis* and it pertains to *low* *doses*
of ionizing *radiation* only.


So you did read it, read it again.


| Radiation hormesis is the hypothesis that low doses of ionizing radiation
| (within the region of and just above natural background levels) are
| beneficial, stimulating the activation of repair mechanisms that protect
| against disease, that are not activated in absence of ionizing radiation
| similar to vaccinations). […]

Hypothesis. Low doses. Ionizing radiation.

NOT certainty, high doses and any radiation.

End of story.

All the evidence from Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Chernobyl and Fukushima suggests
that prolonged exposure to radioactive material is dangerous for one’s
health and eventually lethal. As I explained, a damaged immune system does
not work properly, so it is quite a stretch to assume that such an immune
system would in some way repair itself. Note that *low* doses would not do
that.


No it does not.


Yes, it does. No person who witnessed these events became healthier from
exposure to them, most of them suffer and some to many have died.

To me, this argument looks a lot like wishful thinking by a clueless person.
Like “duck and cover”. Probably some people never learn.


You are uneducated on this subject.


No, you are.

In the long ago past radiation levels were way higher,
and yet here we are.


Cite evidence.

[clueless blathering]


--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
 




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