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F-104 to launch tiny satellites



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 11, 11:19 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html

Pat
  #2  
Old June 2nd 11, 05:54 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley
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Posts: 5,012
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

In article
tatelephone,
says...

"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html

F-104 is still one of my all time favorite aircraft.

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011
  #3  
Old June 2nd 11, 11:20 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:54:30 -0400, Jeff Findley
wrote:


"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html


F-104 is still one of my all time favorite aircraft.


All-round crappy aircraft, successful only because of Lockheed bribes,
but what a beautiful machine!

Brian
  #4  
Old June 2nd 11, 11:23 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:19:37 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's


1958, Project Pilot (launched from F4D "Ford" Skyrays.)

Brian

  #5  
Old June 3rd 11, 04:50 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Orval Fairbairn
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Posts: 267
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

In article
tatelephone,
Pat Flannery wrote:

On 6/2/2011 2:20 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:54:30 -0400, Jeff Findley
wrote:


"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html

F-104 is still one of my all time favorite aircraft.


All-round crappy aircraft, successful only because of Lockheed bribes,
but what a beautiful machine!


I said I didn't think it was that hot of a fighter on another newsgroup
and a former Starfighter pilot nearly bit my head off.
If nothing else, it certainly wasn't the safest thing that ever flew;
loss rates among all the nations that flew it were consistently right
around 30%, with the Canadian Air Force being the worst at over 50%.
One problem it had was that if you threw it into a abrupt climb the
aircraft could break up (horizontal tail fin going into the turbulent
air behind the stalled wing and losing control authority?).
That's not something you want in an aircraft that may get into a
dogfight, much less for an aircraft that may do low-level bombing runs
that may require abrupt climbs to avoid striking terrain.
The Jordanian Air Force came up with a clever us for theirs; the parked
them at a decoy airfield and just left them there, unflown.
Oddball bit of trivia - Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who was one
of the major figures in the bribery scandal regarding their sale by
Lockheed, was the founder of the Bilderbergers, on every conspiracy
theorist's list of favorite secret societies.

Pat


A friend of mine had just visited NAS Miramar, with a friend in a
B-model (2-seats). On climbout, through the marine deck, the engine
shelled out. He turned around and made a deadstick landing back at
Miramar.
  #6  
Old June 3rd 11, 05:48 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

On 6/2/2011 2:20 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:54:30 -0400, Jeff Findley
wrote:


"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html


F-104 is still one of my all time favorite aircraft.


All-round crappy aircraft, successful only because of Lockheed bribes,
but what a beautiful machine!


I said I didn't think it was that hot of a fighter on another newsgroup
and a former Starfighter pilot nearly bit my head off.
If nothing else, it certainly wasn't the safest thing that ever flew;
loss rates among all the nations that flew it were consistently right
around 30%, with the Canadian Air Force being the worst at over 50%.
One problem it had was that if you threw it into a abrupt climb the
aircraft could break up (horizontal tail fin going into the turbulent
air behind the stalled wing and losing control authority?).
That's not something you want in an aircraft that may get into a
dogfight, much less for an aircraft that may do low-level bombing runs
that may require abrupt climbs to avoid striking terrain.
The Jordanian Air Force came up with a clever us for theirs; the parked
them at a decoy airfield and just left them there, unflown.
Oddball bit of trivia - Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who was one
of the major figures in the bribery scandal regarding their sale by
Lockheed, was the founder of the Bilderbergers, on every conspiracy
theorist's list of favorite secret societies.

Pat
  #7  
Old June 3rd 11, 06:19 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

On 6/2/2011 2:23 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2011 02:19:37 -0800, Pat
wrote:

"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's


1958, Project Pilot (launched from F4D "Ford" Skyrays.


Here's some info on the launches, one of which the Navy claimed got into
orbit: http://www.designation-systems.net/d...4/notsnik.html
There was also Caleb:
http://www.designation-systems.net/d...pp4/caleb.html

Pat
  #8  
Old June 3rd 11, 08:12 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

On 6/2/2011 7:50 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
A friend of mine had just visited NAS Miramar, with a friend in a
B-model (2-seats). On climbout, through the marine deck, the engine
shelled out. He turned around and made a deadstick landing back at
Miramar.


With those dinky wings, doing a deadstick landing in one must have been
a lot of fun, like bringing a X-15 in. You had better hope you have your
glide slope just right.
The J79 engine had loads of power for its weight, but being tough wasn't
one of its atributes by a long shot.
I knew a guy who did maintenance on them in the Air Force, and he said
they were a royal pain to work on because of their very lightweight
construction and high tolerances. If you didn't support the engine very
carefully during ground work, you could bend it enough to ruin it.

Pat

  #10  
Old June 3rd 11, 07:56 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,012
Default F-104 to launch tiny satellites

In article Dv2dnX3
hdakotatelephone,
says...

On 6/2/2011 2:20 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:54:30 -0400, Jeff Findley
wrote:


"Rocket booster with a man in it"?
The idea of using jet fighters for launching small satellites was first
played around with in the 1960's, but it looks like someone is going to
take another crack at it:
http://www.nasahackspace.org/2011/05..._launch_s.html

F-104 is still one of my all time favorite aircraft.


All-round crappy aircraft, successful only because of Lockheed bribes,
but what a beautiful machine!


I said I didn't think it was that hot of a fighter on another newsgroup
and a former Starfighter pilot nearly bit my head off.


It's an awesome aircraft, if you know its limitations. Unfortunately,
it took quite some time to find all of these.

If nothing else, it certainly wasn't the safest thing that ever flew;
loss rates among all the nations that flew it were consistently right
around 30%, with the Canadian Air Force being the worst at over 50%.
One problem it had was that if you threw it into a abrupt climb the
aircraft could break up (horizontal tail fin going into the turbulent
air behind the stalled wing and losing control authority?).
That's not something you want in an aircraft that may get into a
dogfight, much less for an aircraft that may do low-level bombing runs
that may require abrupt climbs to avoid striking terrain.


Yes, it earned the nickname, "The Widowmaker" for a reason.

From what I understand, it had a tendency to pitch up at high angles of
attack and enter an unrecoverable flat spin. The only way out of the
flat spin was to eject and unfortunately, the e-seats of the time
weren't terribly great, so survival wasn't a given.

So yea, this flaw made for a not so great "fighter", but was still a
hell of an aircraft for research.

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011
 




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