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Perpetual Motion of Water in Electric Field



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 17, 02:33 PM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Default Perpetual Motion of Water in Electric Field

Here is vigorous motion of water in an electric field, obviously able to produce work - e.g. by rotating a waterwheel:

"The Formation of the Floating Water Bridge including electric breakdowns"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17UD1goTFhQ

"The water movement is bidirectional, i.e., it simultaneously flows in both directions." https://www.wetsus.nl/home/wetsus-ne...n-innovation/1

The work (rotating a waterwheel) will be done at the expense of what energy? The first hypothesis that comes to mind is:

At the expense of electric energy. The system is, essentially, an electric motor.

However close inspection would suggest that the hypothesis is untenable. Scientists use triply distilled water to reduce the conductivity and the electric current passing through the system to minimum. If, for some reason, the current is increased, the motion stops - such system cannot be an electric motor.

If the system is not an electric motor, then it is a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics. Here arguments describing such heat engines as impossible, idiotic, etc. are irrelevant - the following conditional is valid:

IF THE SYSTEM IS NOT AN ELECTRIC MOTOR, then it is a a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics.

In other words, if the work is not done at the expense of electric energy, it is done at the expense of ambient heat. No third source of energy is conceivable.

In the electric field between the plates of a capacitor, the same turbulent motion can be seen:

" Liquid Dielectric Capacitor" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6KAH1JpdPg

In the capacitor system the rising water can repeatedly do work, e.g. by lifting floating weights. The crucial question is:

The work (lifting floating weights) will be done at the expense of what energy?

Obviously "electric energy" is not the correct answer - the capacitor is not an electric motor. Then the only possible answer remains "ambient heat". The system is a heat engine violating the second law of thermodynamics!

Pentcho Valev
  #2  
Old October 7th 17, 11:27 AM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Default Perpetual Motion of Water in Electric Field

A non-conservative force (pressure) emerges when water is placed in an electric field:

http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/Physic...electrics.html
"A plane capacitor with rectangular plates is fixed in a vertical position.. [...] The capacitor is charged and disconnected from the battery. [...] The lower part of the capacitor is now brought into contact with a dielectric liquid:

http://electron6.phys.utk.edu/Physic...ges/Image4.gif

When the plates contact the liquid's surface, a force in the upward direction is exerted on the dielectric liquid. The total charge on each plate remains constant and there is no energy transferred to the system from outside.." [END OF QUOTATION]

There IS energy transferred to the system from outside. The rising water can do work, e.g. by lifting a floating weight, and this work can only be done at the expense of AMBIENT HEAT.

What is the molecular mechanism behind the effect? Here is a schematic presentation of water dipoles in the electrical field:

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/valev/val2.gif

If it were not for the indicated (with an arrow) dipole, other dipoles in the picture are perfectly polarized as if there were no thermal motion. Of course, this is an oversimplification – thermal motion is a factor which constantly disturbs the polarization order. The crucial point is that, as can be inferred from the picture, any thermal disturbance contributes to the creation of a pressure between the plates. Consider the indicated dipole. It has just received a strong thermal stroke and undergone rotation. As a result, it pushes adjacent dipoles electrostatically, towards the plates. Macroscopically, the sum of all such disturbances is expressed as a pressure exerted on the plates. One can also say, somewhat figuratively, that the indicated dipole has absorbed heat and now, by pushing adjacent dipoles, is trying to convert it into work.

The water-in-electric-field system seems to be ubiquitous in Nature. Adam Wexler's article is extremely instructive, both for what it says explicitly and for what it only implies:

"There is practically nothing ordinary about the water in an active floating bridge, and this is no esoteric experiment, as the strength and shape of the electric field we apply in the water bridge is nearly ubiquitous throughout nature. It turns out that if we examine the electric fields present in nature, such as those in living cells, around soil particles, or in clouds, we find that the field strengths are on the same order of magnitude - megavolts per meter. Which incidentally is the same in the water bridge, not to mention inside many electrochemical and biochemical fuel cells that are now being used to develop the next generation of resource recovery technologies. Megavolts per meter seems to be this kind of universal constant of field strength in aqueous systems. It's such an enticing observation that, during my defense, one of my opponents made a point to ask whether I thought this was just a coincidence or indicated some deeper truth that we are as yet unaware. Of course I had to answer the latter, as I am a firm believer that nature is quite deliberate in its construction and there are really no accidents. [...] The floating water bridge is a long-lost piece of the puzzle in understanding why water is such an unusual substance. What we had missed was that, in liquids there exists an intrinsic disequilibrium which continuously drives the system around within a big basin of possible configurations; and water is again exceptional. When we apply the electric field, we perturb the dynamics and change the shape of the attractor basin. This in turn changes the flow of energy through the system and may even liberate stored energy that is inaccessible when the liquid is in the ground state." https://www.wetsus.nl/home/wetsus-ne...n-innovation/1

Note that some "stored energy" was "inaccessible" and is now "liberated". Actually there is no "stored energy" - the engine is powered by AMBIENT HEAT.. We have a fundamental mechanism of utilization of ambient heat (no need for a temperature gradient) that has remained hidden for too long, thanks to the inclination of mankind to blind itself by imposing false restrictive principles - in this case the second law of thermodynamics. In an electric field, water is capable of undergoing perpetual (limited only by the deterioration of the system) motion and the energy source behind this is heat absorbed from the surroundings. The absorbed heat eventually returns to the surroundings, due to friction. However the perpetual motion can be harnessed - then heat absorbed from the surroundings will be converted into work, in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.

Pentcho Valev
  #3  
Old October 8th 17, 06:17 PM posted to sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default Perpetual Motion of Water in Electric Field

In an electric field, water develops a specific pressure that pushes in all directions and can result in an eternal (limited only by the deterioration of the system) motion, on condition that the system provides suitable channels for water to move through. If, in the simplest case, two opposite charges immersed in water are close enough to attract each other, the specific pressure that develops between them counteracts the force of attraction and the latter apparently decreases:

Wolfgang K. H. Panofsky, Melba Phillips, Classical Electricity and Magnetism, pp.115-116: "Thus the decrease in force that is experienced between two charges when they are immersed in a dielectric liquid can be understood only by considering the effect of the PRESSURE OF THE LIQUID ON THE CHARGES themselves." http://www.amazon.com/Classical-Elec...iglink21401-20

"However, in experiments in which a capacitor is submerged in a dielectric liquid the force per unit area exerted by one plate on another is observed to decrease... [...] This apparent paradox can be explained by taking into account the DIFFERENCE IN LIQUID PRESSURE in the field filled space between the plates and the field free region outside the capacitor." http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teachin...es/node46.html

Tai Chow, Introduction to Electromagnetic Theory: A Modern Perspective, p. 267: "The strictly electric forces between charges on the conductors are not influenced by the presence of the dielectric medium. The medium is polarized, however, and the interaction of the electric field with the polarized medium results in an INCREASED FLUID PRESSURE ON THE CONDUCTORS that reduces the net forces acting on them." http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-T.../dp/0763738271

The specific pressure that develops in water placed in an electric field is NON-CONSERVATIVE. This means that, if suitably harnessed, the pressure will do work AT THE EXPENSE OF AMBIENT HEAT (in violation of the second law of thermodynamics).

The emergence of a non-conservative force in an electrostatic system where all crucial forces are conservative (electrical) by definition is awkward and scientists are often at a loss to know how to deal with it:

Introduction to Electromagnetic Theory: A Modern Perspective, Tai Chow, p. 267: "Calculations of the forces between charged conductors immersed in a liquid dielectric always show that the force is reduced by the factor K. There is a tendency to think of this as representing a reduction in the electrical forces between the charges on the conductors, as though Coulomb's law for the interaction of two charges should have the dielectric constant included in its denominator. This is incorrect, however. The strictly electric forces between charges on the conductors are not influenced by the presence of the dielectric medium. The medium is polarized, however, and the interaction of the electric field with the polarized medium results in an increased fluid pressure on the conductors that reduces the net forces acting on them." https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-.../dp/0763738271

Classical Electricity and Magnetism: Second Edition (Dover Books on Physics), Wolfgang K. H. Panofsky, Melba Phillips, p. 114: "This means that if a system maintained at constant charge is totally surrounded by a dielectric liquid all mechanical forces will drop in the ratio 1/k. A factor 1/k is frequently included in the expression for Coulomb's law to indicate this decrease in force. The physical significance of this reduction of force, which is required by energy considerations, is often somewhat mysterious. It is difficult to see on the basis of a field theory why the interaction between two charges should be dependent upon the nature or condition of the intervening material, and therefore the inclusion of an extra factor 1/k in Coulomb's law lacks a physical explanation." p.115: "Therefore the decrease in force [...] cannot be explained by electrical forces alone." pp.115-116: "Thus the decrease in force that is experienced between two charges when they are immersed in a dielectric liquid can be understood only by considering the effect of the pressure of the liquid on the charges themselves. In accordance with the philosophy of the action-at-a-distance theory, no change in the purely electrical interaction between the charges takes place." https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Ele.../dp/0486439240

Pentcho Valev
 




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