Gravity Waves Faster-Than-Light Speed?

Abstract

Standard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation
speed of forces. When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all
yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than
lightspeed. This is because gravity, in contrast to light, has no
detectable aberration or propagation delay for its action, even for
cases (such as binary pulsars) where sources of gravity accelerate
significantly during the light time from source to target By contrast,
the finite propagation speed of light causes radiation pressure forces
to have a non-radial component causing orbits to decay (the
"Poynting-Robertson effect"); but gravity has no counterpart force
proportional to v/c to first order. General relativity (GR) explains
these features by suggesting that gravitation (unlike electromagnetic
forces) is a pure geometric effect of curved space-time, not a force of
nature that propagates. Gravitational radiation, which surely does
propagate at lightspeed but is a fifth order effect in v/c, is too small
to play a role in explaining this difference in behavior between gravity
and ordinary forces of nature. Problems with the causality principle
also exist for GR in this connection, such as explaining how the
external fields between binary black holes manage to continually update
without benefit of communication with the masses hidden behind event
horizons. These causality problems would be solved without any change to
the mathematical formalism of GR, but only to its interpretation, if
gravity is once again taken to be a propagating force of nature in flat
spacetime with the propagation speed indicated by observational evidence
and experiments: not less than 2 x 1010 c. Such a change of perspective
requires no change in the assumed character of gravitational radiation
or its lightspeed propagation. Although faster-than-light force
propagation speeds do violate Einstein special relativity (SR), they are
in accord with Lorentzian relativity, which has never been
experimentally distinguished from SR-at least, not if favor of SR.
Indeed, far from upsetting much of current physics, the main changes
induced by this new perspective are beneficial to areas where physics
has been struggling, such as explaining experimental evidence for
non-locality in quantum physics, the dark matter issue in cosmology, and
the possible unification of forces. Recognition of a
faster-than-lightspeed propagation of gravity, as indicated by all
existing experimental evidence, may be the key to taking conventional
physics to the next plateau.

.....We conclude that the concept of frozen gravitational fields is
acausal and paradoxical. Gravitational fields must continually
regenerate, like a flowing waterfall. In doing so, they must consist of
entities that propagate. And the speed of propagation of those entities
must greatly exceed the speed of light.....

Mo
http://www.ldolphin.org/vanFlandern/gravityspeed.html

SuperC Gravity needs no speed if its already there. Newton said it was
instantaneous. Einstien gave it the same speed as light. My mind is so
weired I can go with both. Beert

"SuperCool Plasma" wrote in message
...
Abstract

Standard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation
speed of forces. When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all
yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than
lightspeed.

Well, no.

What techniques do you have in mind here? Do you have some
insider information about gravitational wave detection experiments
that have yielded results?

The one recent observational experiment, the Jovian deflection
experiment showed gravitty propagating at c within experimental
error. For more, see for example:

http://wugrav.wustl.edu/people/CMW/SpeedofGravity.html


This is because gravity, in contrast to light, has no
detectable aberration or propagation delay for its action,

"Aberration and the Speed of Gravity in the Jovian Deflection
Experiment", S. Kopeikin and E. B. Fomalont (astro-ph/0311063)
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0311063

[rest snipped]

From Greg N.:

The one recent observational
experiment, the Jovian deflection
experiment showed gravitty propagating
at c within experimental error. For more,
see for example:
http://wugrav.wustl.edu/people/CMW/SpeedofGravity.htm

The Fomalont-Kopeiken experiment was a roundabout method of measuring
the speed of light, nothing more, nothing less.

Do you have some insider information
about gravitational wave detection
experiments that have yielded results?

Apparently you lack a clear understanding of the distinction between
gravity and gravitational waves.
If gravity's propagation speed is limited to c, how do
you explain the stability of planets' orbits over billions of years?
I.e., unless gravity's action is functionally instantaneous (for jb,
that means 'for all practical purposes'), there will be a non-axial tilt
of the force vector where gravity intersects the orbit. Even a slight
non-axial component (rear-ward tilt) of the force vector will do what
over time?

oc