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Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 16th 20, 10:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 7:17:19 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 11:32:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:

"Dale Arney and Chris Jones, from the Space Mission Analysis Branch of NASA?s
Systems Analysis and Concepts Directorate at Langley Research Center, in
Virginia, have been exploring that idea. Perhaps humans could ride through the
upper atmosphere of Venus in a solar-powered airship. Arney and Jones propose
that it may make sense to go to Venus before we ever send humans to Mars.

If that airship sprung a leak, what would be their backup plan?

They would literally descend into the pits of Hell.


They'd surely just leave. They have to have a way to get back into
Venus orbit to get to a transport that would take them back to earth.
So, that would double as an emergency escape mechanism.


They would need to have another airship nearby and a way to quickly move all
the people to that airship.


That's a possibility, but not what I was thinking.

Or have a rocket with enough passenger capacity to go to orbit.


This is what I was thinking. Since the crew likely doesn't want to say
in the atmosphere of Venus forever, they presumably already have a
launch vehicle which will get them from the airship back to Venus orbit.
That would double as an escape vehicle.

Otherwise they would be toast.


Agreed.

Jeff
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These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #13  
Old September 17th 20, 12:29 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:12:09 PM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

They would need to have another airship nearby and a way to quickly move all
the people to that airship.


That's a possibility, but not what I was thinking.

Or have a rocket with enough passenger capacity to go to orbit.


This is what I was thinking. Since the crew likely doesn't want to say
in the atmosphere of Venus forever, they presumably already have a
launch vehicle which will get them from the airship back to Venus orbit.
That would double as an escape vehicle.


It would depend on the crew size. If it was 5 or 6 people they could have such
a vehicle on hand.

If the crew was 25 or 30 or 50 or more that was built up over time, that might
take 5 or 10 separate trips to evacuate all of them. They might not have
enough time to evacuate all.


You'd certainly want enough vehicles on hand to get all the crew out at
the same time. For example, ISS always has enough vehicles docked that
the entire crew can evacuate, if need be.

As for crew size, I really can't imagine a Venus expedition with more
than 5 or 6 people happening in the next several decades.

First we'd want to test uncrewed atmospheric vehicles. Then we'd slowly
work our way up to something big enough to support a crew. That's going
to take time, especially when you consider how long it takes to get to
Venus and back.

All my opinion, of course. If the likes of Starship works out, that
changes the lift capacity equation dramatically. With costs dropping
and payload size increasing, that would be a boon to any Venus
exploration initiative.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #14  
Old September 18th 20, 02:18 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
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Posts: 548
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Sep/17/2020 at 07:29, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 5:12:09 PM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

They would need to have another airship nearby and a way to quickly move all
the people to that airship.

That's a possibility, but not what I was thinking.

Or have a rocket with enough passenger capacity to go to orbit.

This is what I was thinking. Since the crew likely doesn't want to say
in the atmosphere of Venus forever, they presumably already have a
launch vehicle which will get them from the airship back to Venus orbit.
That would double as an escape vehicle.


It would depend on the crew size. If it was 5 or 6 people they could have such
a vehicle on hand.

If the crew was 25 or 30 or 50 or more that was built up over time, that might
take 5 or 10 separate trips to evacuate all of them. They might not have
enough time to evacuate all.


You'd certainly want enough vehicles on hand to get all the crew out at
the same time. For example, ISS always has enough vehicles docked that
the entire crew can evacuate, if need be.

As for crew size, I really can't imagine a Venus expedition with more
than 5 or 6 people happening in the next several decades.

First we'd want to test uncrewed atmospheric vehicles. Then we'd slowly
work our way up to something big enough to support a crew. That's going
to take time, especially when you consider how long it takes to get to
Venus and back.

All my opinion, of course. If the likes of Starship works out, that
changes the lift capacity equation dramatically. With costs dropping
and payload size increasing, that would be a boon to any Venus
exploration initiative.


And on Jul/4/2020 at 18:29
wrote:
| Workable? Or just another flight of fancy?
|
| "This airship flies from the upper atmospheric station to orbit. It |
| uses hybrid chemical/electric propulsion to slowly accelerate and | |
| reach orbit.
|
| "A two mile wide station parked at 140,000 feet is the new way station
| to space. The station acts not only as a port for the orbital | | |
| airship but also as a research center, construction site and tourist |
| destination."
|
| See:
|
|
http://www.jpaerospace.com/atohandout.pdf
|
| &
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32082/we-talk-giant-boomerang-|
| shaped-airships-space-and-phoenix-lights-with-jp-aerospaces-founder

At the time, I expressed my scepticism about those balloons to space,
and I still am sceptic. But if they do manage to make them work, for
Earth, there really is no reason why they couldn't do it for Venus. They
would just skip the leg going from the ground to their high altitude
balloon station. In fact, I'm not sure if the high altitude station is
needed at all. They could just fly the balloon between orbit and high
altitude atmosphere.

If they can prove the existence of life in Venus' atmosphere, and prove
that it has an independent origin from life on Earth (not a panspermia
thing); I would consider that to be one of the most important scientific
discovery, if not the most important scientific discovery, ever. But I
think that some weird chemistry is more likely to be the cause here.
Though I am hoping for life.


Alain Fournier
  #15  
Old September 19th 20, 10:30 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Anthony Frost
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Posts: 253
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

In message
JF Mezei wrote:

So you have a sci-fi floating station in Venus atmosphere held up by
some balloons. With X number of people in it.


JBIS Vol 73 No 4 April 2020, "Conceptual Design of a Crewed Platform in
the Venusian Atmosphere", Markus Grass, Marius Schwinning, Reinhold
Ewald, Institute of Space Systems, University of Stuttgart.

Anthony

  #16  
Old September 21st 20, 04:16 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

In article ,
says...

So you have a sci-fi floating station in Venus atmosphere held up by
some balloons. With X number of people in it.

1- How would people go from Earth-Venus spaceship to land on that
floating station?

Is there a way to go from orbit down to whatever altitude that station
is and land vertically after having lost all horizontal speed?


Obviously you can't land on top of the balloon, you have to somehow
attach to the HAB that's dangling below it. A Zeppelin like ship
wouldn't be much different. You still put the HAB on the bottom.

Sparrowhawk biplane docking with an airship
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/236016836691790510/

USS Macon & Sparrowhawks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWoEQRl8dCs

Parasite aircraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite_aircraft

If by using atmpsphere to kill your orbital/horizontal speed you end uip
at altitude lower than the station, then you end up needing a lot of fuel.


Could deploy a balloon for buoyancy.

If you de-orbit, and then inflate a balloon at some point to not only
keep you above station altitude but also aerobrake you, then you need a
good ballon that won't burn up. (and need materials that won't be
destroyed by the acid in atmpsphere)

It seems to me that if you can solve how to land on the floating
platform, you have also figured out how to get off from it and back into
space.


All except for the delta-V required. Launching from Venus, even at a
high altitude, is going to be at least as hard as launching from earth,
IMHO. Similar gravities and similar issue with air drag.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #17  
Old September 22nd 20, 06:14 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 20
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

Now the Russians are claiming the place:

"Venus is a “Russian planet,” the head of Russia’s state space agency said Tuesday following
new research that suggests there could be life on the second planet from the sun.

The research, published in the journal Nature Astronomy on Monday, details British and
American scientists’ discovery of phosphine gas in Venus’ clouds and puts forward possible
theories for its origin, including that of extraterrestrial life."

See:

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/...ef-says-a71451
  #18  
Old September 22nd 20, 02:08 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Scott Kozel
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Posts: 62
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 at 1:14:09 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Now the Russians are claiming the place:

"Venus is a “Russian planet,” the head of Russia’s state space agency said Tuesday following


They are claiming the entire planet?
  #19  
Old September 23rd 20, 04:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On 9/14/2020 3:13 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:

If I recall correctly, it was Pat Flannery who would talk about the
purple haired Venusian fire ladies. If he was still around he would be
happy to know that they have microbial company.


Well since you brought Pat up, closing in on the 9th anniversary of his
passing, yes I'd have to agree. Pat would be the first to point out that
- astronaughts - arriving at Venus should bring medicinal antibiotics.

As Pat would also rightly point out, not only Venusian ladies were
purple haired. Apparently it affects women at the Lunar Planetary UFO
Protection Outpost as well. Or perhaps they were wigs to ward off
harmful solar and UV radiation? Pat would have been all for it....

https://24femmespersecond.files.word...6584a7_b-2.jpg


Dave
  #20  
Old September 24th 20, 01:05 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Dean Markley
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Posts: 515
Default Life on Venus? Astronomers See a Signal in Its Clouds

On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 11:50:19 AM UTC-4, David Spain wrote:
On 9/14/2020 3:13 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:

If I recall correctly, it was Pat Flannery who would talk about the
purple haired Venusian fire ladies. If he was still around he would be
happy to know that they have microbial company.

Well since you brought Pat up, closing in on the 9th anniversary of his
passing, yes I'd have to agree. Pat would be the first to point out that
- astronaughts - arriving at Venus should bring medicinal antibiotics.

As Pat would also rightly point out, not only Venusian ladies were
purple haired. Apparently it affects women at the Lunar Planetary UFO
Protection Outpost as well. Or perhaps they were wigs to ward off
harmful solar and UV radiation? Pat would have been all for it....

https://24femmespersecond.files.word...6584a7_b-2.jpg


Dave

How dare you insinuate they were wigs!
 




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