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Mach Thruster Update.



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 7th 20, 05:49 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Mach Thruster Update.

On Sep/7/2020 at 11:05, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
wrote in message
...

Gravity, Gizmos, and a Grand Theory of Interstellar Travel:

"Woodward’s MEGA drive is different. Instead of propellant, it relies on
electricity, which in space would come from solar panels or a nuclear
reactor. His
insight was to use a stack of piezoelectric crystals and some
controversial—but he
believes plausible—physics to generate thrust. The stack of crystals,
which store
tiny amounts of energy, vibrates tens of thousands of times per second
when zapped
with electric current. Some of the vibrational frequencies harmonize
as they roll
through the device, and when the oscillations sync up in just the
right way, the
small drive lurches forward."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/mach-eff...tellar-travel/


What are the odds of this actually working?


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ic-propulsion/
is where I first read about this. (paywalled sorry).

This is one of those, "I HIGHLY doubt it'll work, but it's just close
enough to the edge of physics as we know it, it's probably worth some
cautious funding."

I think it's sort of like the proposed Alcubierre warp drive, unlikely
to actually work or be practical, but worth some investigation "just in
case".


I wouldn't put the Alcubierre warp drive in the same category. I think
one could build a working Alcubierre warp drive if one had a suitable
source negative mass exotic matter. Their is some uncertainty, but the
physics behind Alcubierre drive have a reasonable chance of being
correct. Of course finding the source of exotic matter is a problem :-)

Woodward's MEGA drive (and calmagorod's PNN) are on an opposite track.
They have all the hardware to build their gizmos, but they don't seem to
have the physics on their side.


Alain Fournier
  #12  
Old September 7th 20, 06:34 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Doctor Who[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Mach Thruster Update.

On 9/7/20 6:49 PM, Alain Fournier wrote:
On Sep/7/2020 at 11:05, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
wrote in message
...

Gravity, Gizmos, and a Grand Theory of Interstellar Travel:

"Woodward’s MEGA drive is different. Instead of propellant, it relies on
electricity, which in space would come from solar panels or a nuclear
reactor. His
insight was to use a stack of piezoelectric crystals and some
controversial—but he
believes plausible—physics to generate thrust. The stack of crystals,
which store
tiny amounts of energy, vibrates tens of thousands of times per
second when zapped
with electric current. Some of the vibrational frequencies harmonize
as they roll
through the device, and when the oscillations sync up in just the
right way, the
small drive lurches forward."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/mach-eff...tellar-travel/


What are the odds of this actually working?


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ic-propulsion/
is where I first read about this. (paywalled sorry).

This is one of those, "I HIGHLY doubt it'll work, but it's just close
enough to the edge of physics as we know it, it's probably worth some
cautious funding."

I think it's sort of like the proposed Alcubierre warp drive, unlikely
to actually work or be practical, but worth some investigation "just
in case".


I wouldn't put the Alcubierre warp drive in the same category. I think
one could build a working Alcubierre warp drive if one had a suitable
source negative mass exotic matter. Their is some uncertainty, but the
physics behind Alcubierre drive have a reasonable chance of being
correct. Of course finding the source of exotic matter is a problem :-)

Woodward's MEGA drive (and calmagorod's PNN) are on an opposite track.
They have all the hardware to build their gizmos, but they don't seem to
have the physics on their side.


Alain Fournier




then you don't know physics.

  #13  
Old September 8th 20, 12:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Mach Thruster Update.

"Alain Fournier" wrote in message ...

On Sep/7/2020 at 11:05, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
wrote in message
...

Gravity, Gizmos, and a Grand Theory of Interstellar Travel:

"Woodward’s MEGA drive is different. Instead of propellant, it relies on
electricity, which in space would come from solar panels or a nuclear
reactor. His
insight was to use a stack of piezoelectric crystals and some
controversial—but he
believes plausible—physics to generate thrust. The stack of crystals,
which store
tiny amounts of energy, vibrates tens of thousands of times per second
when zapped
with electric current. Some of the vibrational frequencies harmonize as
they roll
through the device, and when the oscillations sync up in just the right
way, the
small drive lurches forward."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/mach-eff...tellar-travel/


What are the odds of this actually working?


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ic-propulsion/
is where I first read about this. (paywalled sorry).

This is one of those, "I HIGHLY doubt it'll work, but it's just close
enough to the edge of physics as we know it, it's probably worth some
cautious funding."

I think it's sort of like the proposed Alcubierre warp drive, unlikely to
actually work or be practical, but worth some investigation "just in
case".


I wouldn't put the Alcubierre warp drive in the same category. I think one
could build a working Alcubierre warp drive if one had a suitable source
negative mass exotic matter. Their is some uncertainty, but the physics
behind Alcubierre drive have a reasonable chance of being correct. Of
course finding the source of exotic matter is a problem :-)

Woodward's MEGA drive (and calmagorod's PNN) are on an opposite track. They
have all the hardware to build their gizmos, but they don't seem to have
the physics on their side.


I disagree a bit, but let me explain why.

As you say, basically we COULD build Alcubierre's drive if we had something
that appears to be mythical.
But remember, his first design required something like a negative mass
greater than the mass of the known universe. Later designs reduced it to 3
solar masses.
Now they're down to (depending on assumptions) a few milligrams to a few
hundred kilograms.
My point is, as we do more research, we actually get closer to a buildable
design.

That said, I'll admit, Woodward's MEGA drive does seem to have the opposite
problem, it appears we can physically build it, but the physics may not
work.
In either case, I'm ok with throwing some money at both "just in case".



Alain Fournier


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/

  #14  
Old September 8th 20, 01:20 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Mach Thruster Update.

On Sep/7/2020 at 19:41, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
"Alain Fournier"Â* wrote in message ...

On Sep/7/2020 at 11:05, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
wrote in message
...

Gravity, Gizmos, and a Grand Theory of Interstellar Travel:

"Woodward’s MEGA drive is different. Instead of propellant, it
relies on
electricity, which in space would come from solar panels or a
nuclear reactor. His
insight was to use a stack of piezoelectric crystals and some
controversial—but he
believes plausible—physics to generate thrust. The stack of
crystals, which store
tiny amounts of energy, vibrates tens of thousands of times per
second when zapped
with electric current. Some of the vibrational frequencies harmonize
as they roll
through the device, and when the oscillations sync up in just the
right way, the
small drive lurches forward."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/mach-eff...tellar-travel/


What are the odds of this actually working?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ic-propulsion/
is where I first read about this. (paywalled sorry).

This is one of those, "I HIGHLY doubt it'll work, but it's just close
enough to the edge of physics as we know it, it's probably worth some
cautious funding."

I think it's sort of like the proposed Alcubierre warp drive,
unlikely to actually work or be practical, but worth some
investigation "just in case".


I wouldn't put the Alcubierre warp drive in the same category. I think
one could build a working Alcubierre warp drive if one had a suitable
source negative mass exotic matter. Their is some uncertainty, but the
physics behind Alcubierre drive have a reasonable chance of being
correct. Of course finding the source of exotic matter is a problem :-)

Woodward's MEGA drive (and calmagorod's PNN) are on an opposite track.
They have all the hardware to build their gizmos, but they don't seem
to have the physics on their side.


I disagree a bit, but let me explain why.

As you say, basically we COULD build Alcubierre's drive if we had
something that appears to be mythical.
But remember, his first design required something like a negative mass
greater than the mass of the known universe. Later designs reduced it to
3 solar masses.
Now they're down to (depending on assumptions) a few milligrams to a few
hundred kilograms.
My point is, as we do more research, we actually get closer to a
buildable design.


Are we really closer to having a few milligrams of pixie dust than we
are to having 10^62 kg of pixie dust? :-)

That said, I'll admit, Woodward's MEGA drive does seem to have the
opposite problem, it appears we can physically build it, but the physics
may not work.
In either case, I'm ok with throwing some money at both "just in case".


So am I, not too much money but some money yes. And what I wrote just
before this paragraph might not show it, but I favour much more throwing
money at Alcubierre's drive than throwing some at Woodward's MEGA drive.
Even if Alcubierre's drive is never built, it is very interesting to
know that a few negative milligrams of exotic matter would be enough to
transport an atom faster than light.

About throwing money at Alcubierre's drive, I wouldn't throw a tonne of
money at it, but if I could, I certainly would throw a negative tonne of
money at it :-)


Alain Fournier
  #15  
Old September 8th 20, 02:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Mach Thruster Update.

It's being built to test the EmDrive, but it might be useful for testing the Mach Thruster too:


"The resolution lies in designing a tool that can measure these minuscule
amounts of thrust. So a team of physicists at Germany’s Technische Universität
Dresden set out to create a device that would fill this need. Led by physicist
Martin Tajmar, the SpaceDrive project aims to create an instrument so sensitive
and immune to interference that it would put an end to the debate once and for
all. In October, Tajmar and his team presented their second set of experimental
EmDrive measurements at the International Astronautical Congress, and their
results will be published in Acta Astronautica this August. Based on the results
of these experiments, Tajmar says a resolution to the EmDrive saga may only be a
few months away."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/a-mythic...s-a-real-test/
  #18  
Old September 8th 20, 03:23 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 752
Default Mach Thruster Update.

"Alain Fournier" wrote in message ...

On Sep/7/2020 at 19:41, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
"Alain Fournier" wrote in message ...

On Sep/7/2020 at 11:05, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :
wrote in message
...

Gravity, Gizmos, and a Grand Theory of Interstellar Travel:

"Woodward’s MEGA drive is different. Instead of propellant, it relies
on
electricity, which in space would come from solar panels or a nuclear
reactor. His
insight was to use a stack of piezoelectric crystals and some
controversial—but he
believes plausible—physics to generate thrust. The stack of crystals,
which store
tiny amounts of energy, vibrates tens of thousands of times per second
when zapped
with electric current. Some of the vibrational frequencies harmonize
as they roll
through the device, and when the oscillations sync up in just the
right way, the
small drive lurches forward."

See:

https://www.wired.com/story/mach-eff...tellar-travel/


What are the odds of this actually working?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ic-propulsion/
is where I first read about this. (paywalled sorry).

This is one of those, "I HIGHLY doubt it'll work, but it's just close
enough to the edge of physics as we know it, it's probably worth some
cautious funding."

I think it's sort of like the proposed Alcubierre warp drive, unlikely
to actually work or be practical, but worth some investigation "just in
case".

I wouldn't put the Alcubierre warp drive in the same category. I think
one could build a working Alcubierre warp drive if one had a suitable
source negative mass exotic matter. Their is some uncertainty, but the
physics behind Alcubierre drive have a reasonable chance of being
correct. Of course finding the source of exotic matter is a problem :-)

Woodward's MEGA drive (and calmagorod's PNN) are on an opposite track.
They have all the hardware to build their gizmos, but they don't seem to
have the physics on their side.


I disagree a bit, but let me explain why.

As you say, basically we COULD build Alcubierre's drive if we had
something that appears to be mythical.
But remember, his first design required something like a negative mass
greater than the mass of the known universe. Later designs reduced it to
3 solar masses.
Now they're down to (depending on assumptions) a few milligrams to a few
hundred kilograms.
My point is, as we do more research, we actually get closer to a
buildable design.


Are we really closer to having a few milligrams of pixie dust than we are
to having 10^62 kg of pixie dust? :-)


No, but we're probably closer to finding a way of "oh look if we manipulate
it this way, we actually just need a few milligrams of antimater" or
something that actually is known to exist :-)

That said, I'll admit, Woodward's MEGA drive does seem to have the
opposite problem, it appears we can physically build it, but the physics
may not work.
In either case, I'm ok with throwing some money at both "just in case".


So am I, not too much money but some money yes. And what I wrote just
before this paragraph might not show it, but I favour much more throwing
money at Alcubierre's drive than throwing some at Woodward's MEGA drive.
Even if Alcubierre's drive is never built, it is very interesting to know
that a few negative milligrams of exotic matter would be enough to
transport an atom faster than light.

About throwing money at Alcubierre's drive, I wouldn't throw a tonne of
money at it, but if I could, I certainly would throw a negative tonne of
money at it :-)


Of course what's really happening is that Alcubierre's inventing Warp Drive
and Woodward is inventing Impulse Drive.
So we're really just one step from the USS Phoenix :-)


Alain Fournier


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/

  #20  
Old September 9th 20, 08:26 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Mach Thruster Update.

On Sep/8/2020 at 10:23, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :

Of course what's really happening is that Alcubierre's inventing Warp
Drive and Woodward is inventing Impulse Drive.
So we're really just one step from the USS Phoenix :-)


I'm not sure for Woodward, but if that is what Alcubierre's doing he is
sure to fail. The warp drive will be invented by Zefram Cochrane in
2063, you can't change historical facts, it would be against the
Temporal Prime Directive.


Alain Fournier
 




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