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A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 23rd 06, 08:24 AM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
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Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"snidely" wrote:


Derek Lyons wrote:
"snidely" wrote:

[...]
I quote myself since you seem to have missed it the first time around:

"Go back to the top of this subthread; this isn't about the
properties of ammonia."


If we're arguing about whether anhydrous ammonia belongs in a group of
substances that should be labvelled toxic, then yes we are talking
about the properties of ammonia.


No. We, or at least I, am discussing the replacement (in popular
usage) of a broad selection of words with the single word 'toxic'.
Like I said (repeating myself for a third time), go back to the top of
this subthread.

D.


--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


Derek. The terms "toxic" and "toxicity" have been in use for a very long
time in emergency management and many other fields in reference to certain
hazardous chemicals such as ammonia. That usage is not likely to change
anytime soon just because you have a personal problem with it. Get over
it.

George


  #32  
Old December 23rd 06, 08:31 AM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
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Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

"George" wrote in message
...
Anhydrous ammonia is extremely toxic to people and to animals when it is
released as a concentrated gas cloud in accidents such as a train
derailment or a barge accident. Soil contaminated with ammonic
fertilizer is another matter altogether. That said, I wouldn't
recommend that either be let loose in an uncontrolled way within the
confines of the ISS.


Which is why I believe ISS doesn't use ammonia in the coolant loops that
are inside the pressurized confines of ISS. It's only used on the
outside, so you could only bring it into ISS through the airlock. But
luckily when you're doing an EVA, you're in vaccuum and any ammonia that
gets on your suit ought to quickly dissapate. But just in case, NASA had
the astronaut bask in the sun to help get rid of any lingering ammonia.

So in the end, you're not facing the same problem as you would on earth
with a cloud of ammonia that may not quickly dissipate.

Jeff


Oh, I agree with that completely. One caveat I see is that if the ammonia
gets on the spacesuit, and the astronaut then moves into an area that is in
shadow (Melting/Freezing Point: Melting/Freezing Text: -108F,-78C), the
ammonia could crystalize onto the suit, and if not removed prior to entry
into the station, it could vaporize within the station confines. I believe
this was the concern they had back when they had the release during the
space walk, though I could be mistaken.

George


  #33  
Old December 23rd 06, 08:32 AM posted to sci.space.station
George[_1_]
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Posts: 884
Default A Toxic Leak Haunts the Shuttle Crew


"George R. Kasica" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:08:39 -0500, "George"
wrote:


"George R. Kasica" wrote in message
. ..
Anyone familiar with the properties of anhydrous ammonia will tell
you
that
there is no question about its toxicity.

http://msds.ehs.cornell.edu/msds/msdsdod/a67/m33029.htm

Yes, because like most people, they misuse toxic as the media has for
years.

(Here a clue for you: The disposal methods for toxic materials are
not 'use contaminated materials for fertilizer'.)
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Well, I for one am certainly glad that you aren't a first responder. I
can
see your reaction to an anyhdrous ammonia spill along a railline in a
major
city: "It's not toxic because 'they' missuse the word. Just leave it
be."
Meanwhile, as thousands succumb to the fumes...

George

George, as one who happens to be a First Responder and HAZMAT Level-A
trained as well, I can tell you that anhydrous ammonia is nasty stuff.
You definitely DO NOT want to just leave it be. Living in a more rural
area here many of the farmers have large quantities on hand, also a
large commercial food processor is here as well and their
refrigeration is ammonia based. For either of them it's stored in
tanks and we've had a few leaks/spills over the years (in one case a
fork lift at the food processor hit a pipe and cut it - VERY ugly) and
it's always a big deal to clean up the mess and stop the leak ASAP.
More than once we've moved a significant portion of the village out of
the way (total pop. right about 6000 now) depending on the location of
the leak and the winds.

===[George R. Kasica]===

EMT-IV Tech #304005/PHTLS

http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek
ICQ #12862186


So am I. You need to address this to Derek, not me.

LOL...I suspected as much. I wasn't directing at you but more agreeing
with your statement.


It's always good to have an ally. lol

Have a safe and Merry Christmas (and hopefully a peaceful and quiet
one).
===[George R. Kasica]===


Back atcha!

George


 




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