Reality Is ??????

"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"Painius" wrote in message
...

"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said
to
be true(proven)?

Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar.

This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so
"into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth"
can often ring familiar...

...and is frequently taken as "truth".

Examples?

Here's one...

Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals

This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular
*and* scientific!

You can probably come up with several more of your
own examples, if you try...

How's about "Piltdown Man"?

Truth is truth, and has no substance unless it is recognized.
To be recognized, truth has to have a certain ring, and be familiar.
And there are canals on Mars.
It is Martian power of illusion that prevents us from seeing them today,
as we saw them then.

This is a perfect example of truth NOT being truth, Mark.

Your truth is certainly not my truth, as you have demonstrated
with your above statement about "illusion".

Having made such a statement, the responsibility is yours to
provide evidence that i can accept and then agree with you.

Until you do provide evidence beyond the statement, I shall
have to continue to accept the scientifically verifiable "truth"
that there are no waterways on Mars that were made by
sentient beings.

For those who are not taken in by this troller, when the lines
on Mars were first noted by the Italian astronomer, Giovanni
Virginio Schiaparelli (March 14, 1835 - July 4, 1910), he
dubbed them "canali". This translates into English as the word
"channels". So this indicates that the discoverer did NOT
believe his discovery to be of sentient design. A channel is
a *natural* waterway.

Then "canali" was mis-translated into English as "canals", and
imaginations were off and running. For a canal is not a natural
waterway, but one built by sentient beings. For years this was
strong evidence for there being sentient life on Mars.

Nowadays, the only people who continue to hold the view
that there are "canals" on Mars are trollers and the sadly
delusional.

Have a nice day, Mark...

....now go hump somebody else's leg.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org

nightbat wrote

Double-A wrote:

Painius wrote:

"Double-A" wrote in message
groups.com...

Painius wrote:

"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the

universe

around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts

alone.

I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search

for

the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on

science

is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said

to

be true(proven)?

Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar.

This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so
"into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth"
can often ring familiar...

...and is frequently taken as "truth".

Examples?

Here's one...

Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals

This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular
*and* scientific!

You can probably come up with several more of your
own examples, if you try...

How's about "Piltdown Man"?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


How about the once accepted belief that drilling holes in people's
heads was good for the mentally ill?



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN

Double-A

Perfect! And we must also remember the immortal words...

"One cannot help the times we live in."

This just means that the doctors back in that time actually
and truly thought they were "advancing knowledge" and
helping people. Just like those in the time when leeches
were used to "bleed" people.

While things can be said to have improved a bit over the
many abominata of the past, i still wonder how many new
abominations still take place under the guise of knowledge
advancement and "helping people"?.

We think that we know sooo much... and yet we still have
sooo much to learn!

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


Commander Double-A
I look at it like one of those dreams where you think you have woken
up, but really you are still dreaming. We always think that in the
past people had things wrong, but now we've got it straight! Trouble
is that 20 or 30 years from now we will think the same thing about
today's misconceptions: but now we've finally got it!

Double-A


nightbat

Correct Commander it is all frame derivative and what may seem
correct from one frame is not correlating from the next. The Seans
touched on that subject I recall and were quite advanced for their
understanding. Of course saul only sees it from his desert frame and
thinks we should all move next to him.

carry on,
the nightbat

Reality is like Confuses told us "The only permanent thing is
change,and that goes for "theories,and thoughts" Ruth when well (home)
had this to say. "get your ass off the Webtv you lazy bum and and do
some work around here" The other day she said to me "I hope you are
spending your time on the web" and she added give my regards to
nightbat,and Double-A That begs the question When is
virtual real ? or visa versa Bert

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
Reality is like Confuses told us "The only permanent thing is
change,and that goes for "theories,and thoughts"


That was Heraclitus the Greek philosopher (535 - 475 BC).

"The only constant is change."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heraclitus

He also said:

"This universe, which is the same for all, has not been made by any god
or man, but it always has been, is, and will be an ever-living fire,
kindling itself by regular measures and going out by regular measures."


"You could not step twice into the same river; for other waters are
ever flowing on to you."

"The road up and the road down is one and the same."

"Much learning does not teach understanding."

Listen up, you textbookheads!


Ruth when well (home)
had this to say. "get your ass off the Webtv you lazy bum and and do
some work around here" The other day she said to me "I hope you are
spending your time on the web" and she added give my regards to
nightbat,and Double-A That begs the question When is
virtual real ? or visa versa Bert


Say hi to Ruth for me.

Double-A

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message...
oups.com...

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to
be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change our
thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change
dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not
precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm I
see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying
assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their theories.
Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated for
them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You
have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical
orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3 hundred
years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to simple. He
only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would make a
true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and
Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very
complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do some
better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is
precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact
precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the "Three
Body problem" has never been solved. Bert

That's why I say that math is only a model, not a precise underpinning
of what is happening in physical reality.

Double-A

I've never had a problem with this idea, Double-A, as
long as it is not used as an excuse to exclude math from
scientific investigation of physical reality.

Math is an organizational tool and is crucial to a useful
understanding of anything on a scientific level.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


I agree that math is important, and I often study it to increase my
understanding. It's amazing how much one can forget over the years.
It's nice that now there are many tutorial sites on the web. Some of
the sites present the math in a way that make it easier to pick up the
concepts quickly, rather than trying to wade through the old textbooks,
which often try to make a term's worth of work out of the few basic
concepts they're trying to get across.

The Internet has certainly removed the barriers to learning that used
to exist.

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message...
oups.com...

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said
to
be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change
our
thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change
dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not
precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm
I
see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying
assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their
theories.
Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated
for
them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You
have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical
orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3
hundred
years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to
simple. He
only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would
make a
true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and
Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very
complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do
some
better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is
precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact
precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the
"Three
Body problem" has never been solved. Bert

That's why I say that math is only a model, not a precise underpinning
of what is happening in physical reality.

Double-A

I've never had a problem with this idea, Double-A, as
long as it is not used as an excuse to exclude math from
scientific investigation of physical reality.

Math is an organizational tool and is crucial to a useful
understanding of anything on a scientific level.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


I agree that math is important, and I often study it to increase my
understanding. It's amazing how much one can forget over the years.
It's nice that now there are many tutorial sites on the web. Some of
the sites present the math in a way that make it easier to pick up the
concepts quickly, rather than trying to wade through the old textbooks,
which often try to make a term's worth of work out of the few basic
concepts they're trying to get across.

The Internet has certainly removed the barriers to learning that used
to exist.

Double-A

List sites please.

OHJ

honestjohn wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message...
oups.com...

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said
to
be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change
our
thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change
dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not
precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm
I
see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying
assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their
theories.
Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated
for
them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You
have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical
orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3
hundred
years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to
simple. He
only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would
make a
true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and
Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very
complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do
some
better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is
precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact
precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the
"Three
Body problem" has never been solved. Bert

That's why I say that math is only a model, not a precise underpinning
of what is happening in physical reality.

Double-A

I've never had a problem with this idea, Double-A, as
long as it is not used as an excuse to exclude math from
scientific investigation of physical reality.

Math is an organizational tool and is crucial to a useful
understanding of anything on a scientific level.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


I agree that math is important, and I often study it to increase my
understanding. It's amazing how much one can forget over the years.
It's nice that now there are many tutorial sites on the web. Some of
the sites present the math in a way that make it easier to pick up the
concepts quickly, rather than trying to wade through the old textbooks,
which often try to make a term's worth of work out of the few basic
concepts they're trying to get across.

The Internet has certainly removed the barriers to learning that used
to exist.

Double-A

List sites please.

OHJ


HJ, just do a search like "Calculus tutorial" for whatever kind of math
you are interested in reviewing or learning. You probably need to
check out a bunch of sites to find the ones that are best suited for
your needs and level.

Mathworld is a good reference source, but it isn't a tutorial.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/

Unfortunately there is a lot more available on high school level math
than there is on graduate school level math.

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
ups.com...

honestjohn wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...

Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message...
oups.com...

G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a
search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be
said
to
be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can
change
our
thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change
dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is
not
precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm
I
see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying
assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their
theories.
Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to
complicated
for
them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this.
You
have learned that the planets in the solar system follow
elliptical
orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3
hundred
years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to
simple. He
only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two
would
make a
true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars
and
Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very
complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do
some
better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing
is
precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the
exact
precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the
"Three
Body problem" has never been solved. Bert

That's why I say that math is only a model, not a precise
underpinning
of what is happening in physical reality.

Double-A

I've never had a problem with this idea, Double-A, as
long as it is not used as an excuse to exclude math from
scientific investigation of physical reality.

Math is an organizational tool and is crucial to a useful
understanding of anything on a scientific level.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


I agree that math is important, and I often study it to increase my
understanding. It's amazing how much one can forget over the years.
It's nice that now there are many tutorial sites on the web. Some of
the sites present the math in a way that make it easier to pick up the
concepts quickly, rather than trying to wade through the old
textbooks,
which often try to make a term's worth of work out of the few basic
concepts they're trying to get across.

The Internet has certainly removed the barriers to learning that used
to exist.

Double-A

List sites please.

OHJ


HJ, just do a search like "Calculus tutorial" for whatever kind of math
you are interested in reviewing or learning. You probably need to
check out a bunch of sites to find the ones that are best suited for
your needs and level.

Mathworld is a good reference source, but it isn't a tutorial.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/

Unfortunately there is a lot more available on high school level math
than there is on graduate school level math.

Double-A

Thanks for the hyperlink. I'm not interested in Calculus or other such
elementary math, rather in advanced and abstract math for graduate level.

O.H.J.

Michael Baldwin, Bruce wrote:
fake Double-Anus wrote:
Painius wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com...

Painius wrote:
"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said
to
be true(proven)?

Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar.

This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so
"into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth"
can often ring familiar...

...and is frequently taken as "truth".

Examples?

Here's one...

Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals

This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular
*and* scientific!

You can probably come up with several more of your
own examples, if you try...

How's about "Piltdown Man"?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


How about the once accepted belief that drilling holes in people's
heads was good for the mentally ill?


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN

Double-A

Perfect! And we must also remember the immortal words...

"One cannot help the times we live in."

This just means that the doctors back in that time actually
and truly thought they were "advancing knowledge" and
helping people. Just like those in the time when leeches
were used to "bleed" people.

While things can be said to have improved a bit over the
many abominata of the past, i still wonder how many new
abominations still take place under the guise of knowledge
advancement and "helping people"?.

We think that we know sooo much... and yet we still have
sooo much to learn!

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine
http://www.painellsworth.net
http://www.savethechildren.org


I look at it like one of those dreams where you think you have woken
up, but really you are still dreaming. We always think that in the
past people had things wrong, but now we've got it straight! Trouble
is that 20 or 30 years from now we will think the same thing about
today's misconceptions: but now we've finally got it!

Double-Anus

Wake up, fool!

You neophyte Buddhist you.

"Painius" wrote in message
...
"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"Painius" wrote in message
...

"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ...

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...

Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the
universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts
alone.
I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search
for
the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on
science
is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said
to
be true(proven)?

Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar.

This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so
"into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth"
can often ring familiar...

...and is frequently taken as "truth".

Examples?

Here's one...

Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals

This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular
*and* scientific!

You can probably come up with several more of your
own examples, if you try...

How's about "Piltdown Man"?

Truth is truth, and has no substance unless it is recognized.
To be recognized, truth has to have a certain ring, and be familiar.
And there are canals on Mars.
It is Martian power of illusion that prevents us from seeing them today,
as we saw them then.

This is a perfect example of truth NOT being truth, Mark.

Your truth is certainly not my truth, as you have demonstrated
with your above statement about "illusion".

Having made such a statement, the responsibility is yours to
provide evidence that i can accept and then agree with you.

Until you do provide evidence beyond the statement, I shall
have to continue to accept the scientifically verifiable "truth"
that there are no waterways on Mars that were made by
sentient beings.

For those who are not taken in by this troller, when the lines
on Mars were first noted by the Italian astronomer, Giovanni
Virginio Schiaparelli (March 14, 1835 - July 4, 1910), he
dubbed them "canali". This translates into English as the word
"channels". So this indicates that the discoverer did NOT
believe his discovery to be of sentient design. A channel is
a *natural* waterway.


If this is true, then Schiaparelli misinterpreted what he saw through the
lense,
as natural waterways would hardly be visible from such a distance as Earth
is from Mars. Canals, however, would be visible, as they would provide
water from the icecaps for vegetation for miles on either side of the
canals. Don't our own farmers do this with Earthen canals?

Schaiparelli, then, meant to say canals, but his culture just would not let
him during his pride of the moment.


Then "canali" was mis-translated into English as "canals", and
imaginations were off and running. For a canal is not a natural
waterway, but one built by sentient beings. For years this was
strong evidence for there being sentient life on Mars.

Nowadays, the only people who continue to hold the view
that there are "canals" on Mars are trollers and the sadly
delusional.

Martians are a race which have achieved their own culmination, their own
apocalypse.
As such, they have achieved immortality. And anyone with that much power
can easily create an illusion of a dead Martian world. They do this to keep
Earth astronauts away, whom might migrate there and mess up their advanced
culture, music, science and art, even as Ray Bradbury might put it.





Have a nice day, Mark...

...now go hump somebody else's leg.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

Just look up: there is at Mars. You know it is not dead.