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#1
July 30th 06, 12:49 AM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe
around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change our thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm I see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their theories. Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated for them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3 hundred years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to simple. He only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would make a true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do some better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the "Three Body problem" has never been solved. Bert 
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#2
July 30th 06, 03:21 AM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
Approximate enough to predict planetary allignments and eclipses far in
advance. RE "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message ... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change our thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm I see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their theories. Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated for them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3 hundred years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to simple. He only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would make a true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do some better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the "Three Body problem" has never been solved. Bert
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#3
August 2nd 06, 01:05 PM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
"Mark Earnest" wrote...
in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ....and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org
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#4
August 2nd 06, 01:10 PM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote...
in message ... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change our thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm I see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their theories. Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated for them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3 hundred years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to simple. He only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would make a true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do some better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the "Three Body problem" has never been solved. Bert Interesting points, Bert, and orbits like Earth's and Selene's *do* get complicated. However, there is still an ellipse involved when you consider the actual barycenter of the Earth/Moon orbit. While Earth and Moon travel around the Sun in scalloped orbits that are always turned *toward* the Sun (making them both true major planets), their common center of gravity, located about a thousand miles below the surface of Earth, travels around the Sun in an elliptical orbit. happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org
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#5
August 2nd 06, 01:16 PM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ?????? (Yes, but...)
"Double-A" wrote in message...
oups.com... G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote: Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Reality could be the superstring theory can change our thinking of the basic components of matter,and that could change dramatically our understanding of the universe. Physics today is not precise it is said to be a science of approximations Hmmmmm I see lots of fudging by physicists. because they make simplifying assumptions assumptions about nature when they create their theories. Reason for that is natural phenomena are generally to complicated for them to completely comprehend. Give you all an example of this. You have learned that the planets in the solar system follow elliptical orbits as Newton told us through his laws of gravitation(over 3 hundred years ago) Not true reality Newton was making reality to simple. He only had the Sun and earth in his thinking and just the two would make a true elliptical orbit. However the gravitational pull by Mars and Jupiter,also the Earth's own Moon causes its motion to get very complicated(tricky). Thus you see to get closer to reality we do some better approximation. However best we can measure shows nothing is precise to the last decimal point. Obtaining the exact precise solution can never be reality. Best to keep in mind the "Three Body problem" has never been solved. Bert That's why I say that math is only a model, not a precise underpinning of what is happening in physical reality. Double-A I've never had a problem with this idea, Double-A, as long as it is not used as an excuse to exclude math from scientific investigation of physical reality. Math is an organizational tool and is crucial to a useful understanding of anything on a scientific level. happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org
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#6
August 2nd 06, 02:11 PM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
Painius wrote: "Mark Earnest" wrote... in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ...and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org How about the once accepted belief that drilling holes in people's heads was good for the mentally ill? http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN Double-A
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#7
August 2nd 06, 03:59 PM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
"Double-A" wrote in message
oups.com... Painius wrote: "Mark Earnest" wrote... in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ...and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org How about the once accepted belief that drilling holes in people's heads was good for the mentally ill? http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN Double-A Perfect! And we must also remember the immortal words... "One cannot help the times we live in." This just means that the doctors back in that time actually and truly thought they were "advancing knowledge" and helping people. Just like those in the time when leeches were used to "bleed" people. While things can be said to have improved a bit over the many abominata of the past, i still wonder how many new abominations still take place under the guise of knowledge advancement and "helping people"?. We think that we know sooo much... and yet we still have sooo much to learn! happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org
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#8
August 3rd 06, 12:56 AM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
"Painius" wrote in message ... "Mark Earnest" wrote... in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ...and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org Truth is truth, and has no substance unless it is recognized. To be recognized, truth has to have a certain ring, and be familiar. And there are canals on Mars. It is Martian power of illusion that prevents us from seeing them today, as we saw them then.
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#9
August 3rd 06, 05:22 AM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
Painius wrote: "Double-A" wrote in message oups.com... Painius wrote: "Mark Earnest" wrote... in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ...and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org How about the once accepted belief that drilling holes in people's heads was good for the mentally ill? http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN Double-A Perfect! And we must also remember the immortal words... "One cannot help the times we live in." This just means that the doctors back in that time actually and truly thought they were "advancing knowledge" and helping people. Just like those in the time when leeches were used to "bleed" people. While things can be said to have improved a bit over the many abominata of the past, i still wonder how many new abominations still take place under the guise of knowledge advancement and "helping people"?. We think that we know sooo much... and yet we still have sooo much to learn! happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org I look at it like one of those dreams where you think you have woken up, but really you are still dreaming. We always think that in the past people had things wrong, but now we've got it straight! Trouble is that 20 or 30 years from now we will think the same thing about today's misconceptions: but now we've finally got it! Double-A
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#10
August 3rd 06, 05:24 AM
posted to alt.astronomy
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Reality Is ??????
Mark Earnest wrote: "Painius" wrote in message ... "Mark Earnest" wrote... in message ... "G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote... Lets start with philosophers for they attempt to understand the universe around them and grasp the nature of reality by means of thoughts alone. I have always looked for scientific truths,for science is a search for the truth. Still what do we mean when we say that idea based on science is "true"? That begs this question. Can any theory really be said to be true(proven)? Truth has a certain ring to it, which when discovered, is familiar. This can be dangerous thinking, Mark. People are so "into" fiction and fantasy these days that an "untruth" can often ring familiar... ...and is frequently taken as "truth". Examples? Here's one... Canals on Mars - an interesting piece of history... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals This was once a widely accepted truth, both popular *and* scientific! You can probably come up with several more of your own examples, if you try... How's about "Piltdown Man"? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- Indelibly yours, Paine http://www.painellsworth.net http://www.savethechildren.org Truth is truth, and has no substance unless it is recognized. To be recognized, truth has to have a certain ring, and be familiar. And there are canals on Mars. It is Martian power of illusion that prevents us from seeing them today, as we saw them then. Riiiiiiiiiiight! Double-A
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