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Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 07, 08:49 PM posted to sci.space.policy
rhw007
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Posts: 73
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?



Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...s-surface.html

http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk

Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/

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  #2  
Old June 9th 07, 01:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 8, 12:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:
Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-finds-puddle...

http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk

Bob...http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/


If not water, then perhaps of something with a much higher boiling
point would be less likely to vaporise in that near vacuum.
-
Brad Guth

  #3  
Old June 10th 07, 11:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 8, 12:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:
Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-finds-puddle...

http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk

Bob...http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/


Too bad those supposed "Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers" were not
the least bit salty.

Got any good SWAG as to why no salt?
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth

  #4  
Old June 11th 07, 05:15 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else
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Posts: 1,063
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

rhw007 wrote:

Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.

http://space.newscientist.com/articl...s-surface.html

http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk

Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/


That they're liquid seems to be only speculation at this stage.

Sylvia.
  #5  
Old June 11th 07, 07:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,516
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 11, 12:15?am, Sylvia Else wrote:
rhw007 wrote:

Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.


http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-finds-puddle...


http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk


Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/


That they're liquid seems to be only speculation at this stage.

Sylvia.


if they arent water then what else can they be?

  #6  
Old June 12th 07, 12:17 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Sylvia Else
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Posts: 1,063
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:15?am, Sylvia Else wrote:
rhw007 wrote:

Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.
http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-finds-puddle...
http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk
Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/

That they're liquid seems to be only speculation at this stage.

Sylvia.


if they arent water then what else can they be?


I have no idea, but that's not the point. You can't do science on a
different planet through a remote controlled machine via a process of
elimination.

As pointed out in the article there is a simple test that could be
applied to determine whether the surface is liquid. Until that test, or
an equivalent one, is performed, the liquid status is only speculation.

Sylvia.
  #7  
Old June 12th 07, 01:35 AM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 8, 2:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:
Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.


A Planetary Society Blog article written by Emily Lakdawalla
thoroughly debunks the claim that puddles were found.
The article is he http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000998/

-- Eric Goldstein

  #8  
Old June 12th 07, 03:31 PM posted to sci.space.policy
BradGuth
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Posts: 21,544
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 11, 4:17 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:15?am, Sylvia Else wrote:
rhw007 wrote:


Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.
http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-finds-puddle...
http://tinyurl.com/2sxezk
Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/
That they're liquid seems to be only speculation at this stage.


Sylvia.


if they arent water then what else can they be?


I have no idea, but that's not the point. You can't do science on a
different planet through a remote controlled machine via a process of
elimination.

As pointed out in the article there is a simple test that could be
applied to determine whether the surface is liquid. Until that test, or
an equivalent one, is performed, the liquid status is only speculation.

Sylvia.


Science is all about deductive logic. Obviously you have no such
deductive anything, therefore the wheel needs to get reinvented each
and every time.

I agree that it could be lots of things other than liquid, much less
water. Too bad our best science is so pathetic. Perhaps next time
the mission of whatever robotic rover should be outfitted with a white
cane and having a smart dog.

BTW Earth isn't flat, our moon is terribly salty and otherwise rather
badly reactive, and Venus is livable for anyone having half a village
idiot brain.
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth

  #9  
Old June 12th 07, 05:38 PM posted to sci.space.policy
rhw007
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

On Jun 11, 8:35 pm, wrote:
On Jun 8, 2:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:

Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.


A Planetary Society Blog article written by Emily Lakdawalla
thoroughly debunks the claim that puddles were found.
The article is he http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000998/

-- Eric Goldstein


---

rhw:

First of all the image is NOT...repeat NOT...'true false color'.

I have REPEATED Ron Levin's proccessing of Opportunity's SOL 290 image
using the standard MER filters NASA uses for many many of their own
TRUE COLOR images...Red-L2 Green-L5 Blue-L7 and I got the same results
which can be viewed in hires gif image he

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/r...l290puddles.gif

As for being inside a 'crater' I repeat a portion of what I stated
elsewhe

Portions of the 'level' areas could be like a 'stepped terrace' type
of terrain where the top part of the image is higher in elevation than
the botttom portion of the image...BUT...in between there could be
several 'level' areas with reguards to Mars' center of
gravity...THUS...water could FLOW from the upper level ground and
spill downward into the level areas until they fill up, making a small
puddle, those fill up and spill over.

And we have to remember that the SURFACE temperature HAS been measured
as high as 70 degrees farenheit. Also as the whole planet is on a
warming trend more H2O is going from the poles into the atmosphere and
increasing the air pressure.

The 'blue' MAY indeed be hematite residue...but it is NOT hematite
DUST because the higher ROCK portions would HAVE to have it also if
this was fine hematite dust kicked up by the wind...the ROCKS are
entirely TRUE COLOR GREY...NO BLUE.

Come up with a better 'scientific' explanation folks.

I have CORRECTLY reproduced Levin's image processing. Try it for
yourself.

Here are the 3 raw images with proper filters:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L2M1.HTML

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L5M1.HTML

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L7M1.HTML

And to further rebut that L2 and L7 are 'false colors' according to
NASA here is link where they state they use these filters to...well
read for yourself:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=2084

"The false color enhances subtle color differences among materials in
the rocks and soils of the scene. "

So the main thing I get from this is that using L2 and L7 does
NOT...repeat NOT introduce colors that are NOT there...they use these
filter combinations to ENHANCE EXISTING COLORS...i.e. the process does
NOT create colors that were NOT there in the first place...it only
makes these colors more easily discernable.


Bob...
http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/

  #10  
Old June 12th 07, 06:11 PM posted to sci.space.policy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Liquid Puddles found by MER rovers?

You are a fool's fool, and then some. Either that or you're another
certified rusemaster, or is it both?

In your NASA or ESA koran, it's perfectly OK to colorise whatever in
order to create as much false information as possible. Eye popping
candy is however not real science, especially when such arguments are
intentionally taken so far out of context, with little if any regard
for the regular laws of physics.

Eric Goldstein is simply a whole lot more correct than anything you've
provided.

On Jun 11, 5:35 pm, wrote:
On Jun 8, 2:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:

Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.


A Planetary Society Blog article written by Emily Lakdawalla
thoroughly debunks the claim that puddles were found.
The article is he http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000998/

-- Eric Goldstein


Obviously the slope issue alone is pretty much having eliminated any
possibility of there being anything liquid. Not that something fluid
or at least CO2 frost like thawings hadn't created those eronson
patterns.

"without having checked the spatial context" is pretty much par for
the rusemaster course, as often taken to the extremes by those intent
upon promoting and otherwise hyping everything that's Mars, as opposed
to otherwise considering the truth as to what a truly active
planetology worth of what Venus has to offer.

Out of context arguments is also the Zion method of having excluded
the raw evidence, as is the same with their brown-nosed Atheist clowns
in order to topic/author stalk, bash and impose as much banishment and/
or to deploy as much of their PC trauma as they can muster.

Mars is a very dry old desert of a planet that's mostly sub-frozen and
otherwise irradiated and rather easily pulverised to death. The only
nearby orb that's much worse off is that of our physically dark and
highly reactive moon that's also way more salty than Mars. For God's
sake, even Mercury is better off than Mars.
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell
-
Brad Guth




On Jun 12, 9:38 am, rhw007 wrote:
On Jun 11, 8:35 pm, wrote:

On Jun 8, 2:49 pm, rhw007 wrote:


Seems Gil Levin's son found some puddles in MER rover images.


A Planetary Society Blog article written by Emily Lakdawalla
thoroughly debunks the claim that puddles were found.
The article is he http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000998/


-- Eric Goldstein


---

rhw:

First of all the image is NOT...repeat NOT...'true false color'.

I have REPEATED Ron Levin's proccessing of Opportunity's SOL 290 image
using the standard MER filters NASA uses for many many of their own
TRUE COLOR images...Red-L2 Green-L5 Blue-L7 and I got the same results
which can be viewed in hires gif image he

http://home.thirdage.com/Teaching/r...l290puddles.gif

As for being inside a 'crater' I repeat a portion of what I stated
elsewhe

Portions of the 'level' areas could be like a 'stepped terrace' type
of terrain where the top part of the image is higher in elevation than
the botttom portion of the image...BUT...in between there could be
several 'level' areas with reguards to Mars' center of
gravity...THUS...water could FLOW from the upper level ground and
spill downward into the level areas until they fill up, making a small
puddle, those fill up and spill over.

And we have to remember that the SURFACE temperature HAS been measured
as high as 70 degrees farenheit. Also as the whole planet is on a
warming trend more H2O is going from the poles into the atmosphere and
increasing the air pressure.

The 'blue' MAY indeed be hematite residue...but it is NOT hematite
DUST because the higher ROCK portions would HAVE to have it also if
this was fine hematite dust kicked up by the wind...the ROCKS are
entirely TRUE COLOR GREY...NO BLUE.

Come up with a better 'scientific' explanation folks.

I have CORRECTLY reproduced Levin's image processing. Try it for
yourself.

Here are the 3 raw images with proper filters:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L2M1.HTML

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L5M1.HTML

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gall...IP2273L7M1.HTML

And to further rebut that L2 and L7 are 'false colors' according to
NASA here is link where they state they use these filters to...well
read for yourself:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=2084

"The false color enhances subtle color differences among materials in
the rocks and soils of the scene. "

So the main thing I get from this is that using L2 and L7 does
NOT...repeat NOT introduce colors that are NOT there...they use these
filter combinations to ENHANCE EXISTING COLORS...i.e. the process does
NOT create colors that were NOT there in the first place...it only
makes these colors more easily discernable.

Bob...http://www.commonsensecentral.blogspot.com/



 




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