What would you like to be our major goals in space

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:26:30 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Terrell
Miller" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in message
...
Alex Terrell wrote:

Heat pumps have high capital cost, which offsets much of the
economic gain from the efficiency improvement. You usually
see them in places where so little heating is required you
just make the A/C dual purpose.


erm, that doesn't sound right. If they have high capital costs, you'd want
to use them in places where they will be run for long stretches of the year,
to amortize the initial cost. Alaska. You would *not* want to use them in
South Florida, since you only need to run the heater for a few months of the
year, and only during teh evening for the most part.

Yes, sorry. In fact, we don't have a heat pump. We have an A/C with
a heater element for cold days. Though we're thinking about getting a
heat pump for the pool.

To heat it or cool it?

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
:batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
:still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
:winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
:consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.

With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
limited?

Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day. A lot of cars
could get by on a tank of petrol once per year and a charge 3 times per
week.

That would be worth a premium.

On 10 Dec 2006 14:44:00 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Alex
Terrell" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:


Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
:batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
:still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
:winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
:consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.

With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
limited?

Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.

What happens in the UK is completely irrelevant to what happens in the
US. (Hint: look at a freakin' map of the two countries, particularly
the western US. Make sure you pay attention to the scale.)

On 10 Dec 2006 14:40:58 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Alex
Terrell" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

Heat pumps have high capital cost, which offsets much of the
economic gain from the efficiency improvement. You usually
see them in places where so little heating is required you
just make the A/C dual purpose.


erm, that doesn't sound right. If they have high capital costs, you'd want
to use them in places where they will be run for long stretches of the year,
to amortize the initial cost. Alaska. You would *not* want to use them in
South Florida, since you only need to run the heater for a few months of the
year, and only during teh evening for the most part.

Yes, sorry. In fact, we don't have a heat pump. We have an A/C with
a heater element for cold days. Though we're thinking about getting a
heat pump for the pool.

To heat it or cool it?

Is this a joke?

To heat it in the winter, when its temperature is typically in the low
seventies (i.e. requiring a wet suit for any significant period of
time in it, reducing the motivation to use it for exercise).

"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Alex Terrell" wrote:
:
: :
: :Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
: :batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
: :still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
: :winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
: :consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.
:
: With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
: day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
: limited?
:
:Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
:about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.

Most people don't live in the UK. I'd suggest you might want to look
at numbers for the US outside the big Eastern cities. I live pretty
close to work and I'm currently doing about twice what you cite for
the average UKian if I don't do anything but go to and from work.

:A lot of cars
:could get by on a tank of petrol once per year and a charge 3 times per
:week.

Not in the US, they couldn't. As I said, your cited numbers barely
get me to work and back. I'd be charging EVERY day and would have to
take great care never to do much other than go to and from work (I'd
need another car if I really wanted to go anywhere).

:That would be worth a premium.

To you, perhaps. Please feel free to pay it.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Alex Terrell" wrote:
:
: :
: :Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
: :batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
: :still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
: :winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
: :consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.
:
: With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
: day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
: limited?
:
:Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
:about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.

Most people don't live in the UK.

Just as well. It's crowded enough already.

I'd suggest you might want to look
at numbers for the US outside the big Eastern cities. I live pretty
close to work and I'm currently doing about twice what you cite for
the average UKian if I don't do anything but go to and from work.

What is the average mileage? Personally I found that even around
Dallas, most people lived within 30km of their work place.

:A lot of cars
:could get by on a tank of petrol once per year and a charge 3 times per
:week.

Not in the US, they couldn't. As I said, your cited numbers barely
get me to work and back.

I suggest you have a longer commute than the average.

I'd be charging EVERY day and would have to
take great care never to do much other than go to and from work (I'd
need another car if I really wanted to go anywhere).

You could not bother, and just use the vehicle as a conventional
hybrid. That way you get slightly better economy (though not much on
free ways, and better acceleration).

:That would be worth a premium.

To you, perhaps. Please feel free to pay it.

I will when its available. But first for the second car, which does
about 5 miles per day, with a cold engine.

"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Alex Terrell" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "Alex Terrell" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
: : :batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
: : :still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
: : :winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
: : :consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.
: :
: : With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
: : day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
: : limited?
: :
: :Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
: :about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.
:
: Most people don't live in the UK.
:
:Just as well. It's crowded enough already.

Which is why most of us do not (and do not want to) live there.

: I'd suggest you might want to look
: at numbers for the US outside the big Eastern cities. I live pretty
: close to work and I'm currently doing about twice what you cite for
: the average UKian if I don't do anything but go to and from work.
:
:What is the average mileage? Personally I found that even around
allas, most people lived within 30km of their work place.

That's hard to believe, given that the average commute US-wide is
around 16 miles (~27 km) each way. When I lived in Dallas my typical
commute was around 45km each way.

Typical commutes were no doubt shorter, but most of the folks I worked
with had similar commutes.

: :A lot of cars
: :could get by on a tank of petrol once per year and a charge 3 times per
: :week.
:
: Not in the US, they couldn't. As I said, your cited numbers barely
: get me to work and back.
:
:I suggest you have a longer commute than the average.

I suggest you don't know what the **** you're talking about. My
commute is probably longer than the city average but much shorter than
the average of the several thousand folks who work where I do.

: I'd be charging EVERY day and would have to
: take great care never to do much other than go to and from work (I'd
: need another car if I really wanted to go anywhere).
:
:You could not bother, and just use the vehicle as a conventional
:hybrid. That way you get slightly better economy (though not much on
:free ways, and better acceleration).

I could not bother and just continue to drive what I'm driving, which
is the course I vote for.

: :That would be worth a premium.
:
: To you, perhaps. Please feel free to pay it.
:
:I will when its available. But first for the second car, which does
:about 5 miles per day, with a cold engine.

So what do you need that car for? Buy a bicycle (which is the way a
lot of the short commutes around here are done).

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Rand Simberg wrote:
On 10 Dec 2006 14:44:00 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Alex
Terrell" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:


Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
:batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
:still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
:winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
:consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.

With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
limited?

Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.

What happens in the UK is completely irrelevant to what happens in the
US. (Hint: look at a freakin' map of the two countries, particularly
the western US. Make sure you pay attention to the scale.)

That is a fairly common attitude in America. "What happens outside my
town is completely irrelevant to me."

On 11 Dec 2006 01:08:05 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Alex
Terrell" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
limited?

Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.

What happens in the UK is completely irrelevant to what happens in the
US. (Hint: look at a freakin' map of the two countries, particularly
the western US. Make sure you pay attention to the scale.)

That is a fairly common attitude in America. "What happens outside my
town is completely irrelevant to me."

No, our attitude is that people in the UK are apparently clueless
about how far apart things are here, and that UK solutions won't
necessarily work here..

"Alex Terrell" wrote:

:
:Rand Simberg wrote:
: On 10 Dec 2006 14:44:00 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Alex
: Terrell" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
: in such a way as to indicate that:
:
:
: Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Alex Terrell" wrote:
:
: :
: :Or perhaps more optimistically, the future of batteries. Even if
: :batteries don't progress significantly from current status, they're
: :still good enough (if not yet cheap enough) to make Plug in Hybrids a
: :winner. With 100km range, that would pretty much halve fossil fuel
: :consumption in the USA. More than halve it in Europe.
:
: With 100 km range, they barely get a lot of us to work and back each
: day. Why the hell would I want to pay a premium for something that
: limited?
:
: Most people don't do 100km per day. The average mileage in the UK is
: about 6000 miles per year, or about 18 miles per day.
:
: What happens in the UK is completely irrelevant to what happens in the
: US. (Hint: look at a freakin' map of the two countries, particularly
: the western US. Make sure you pay attention to the scale.)
:
:That is a fairly common attitude in America. "What happens outside my
:town is completely irrelevant to me."

This as opposed to YOUR attitude, which is, uh, precisely the same or
worse, amounting to "what happens outside my household is completely
irrelevant to me".

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson