7 Reasons to Read the Glorious Qur'an

"Chris.B" wrote in message
...
On Jul 7, 9:53 pm, Steve Paul discussed his fantasies at length:

You publicly expose your personal fantasies about the propaganda
written so long after the non-historical fantasies it claims to record
and you call me an idiot?

...snip the rant..

No, I call you an idiot because you once again miss the point of my
response.

OTOH, I completely understand your point of view. I don't disagree with it.
But all I can do is work to change my world view, my behavior toward my
immediate neighbors, and to help my extended neighbors through monetary
means. Those things that I cannot change, I am forced to tolerate, as are
you.

You seem to think that individual citizenz are directly responsible for the
behavior of a country (hmm, sounds familiar). You generalize the population
and prove that you know nothing of Americans on the street, or what it
actually means to be a citizen of a country of some 300+ million human
beings, grouped together by geographies with state lines, county lines, and
city lines, each with their own government representatives, each a mix of
ethnicity, religious beliefs, and political differences, and each line free
to be crossed by any citizen if and when they choose, either as a visitor,
or as a new resident.

Unlike so many other geographies in the world, our interstate, and intercity
borders are wide open to all citizens (and non-citizens). Where we have
differences we choose not to resolve disagreements by lobbing bombs over
those lines in munitions, but rather through legislation for the common
good, and at ever higher levels in the hierarchy as needed.

It's a complex proposition and one that is only deteriorating over time with
the continued growth in population as legislation takes away more and more
of our freedoms. Especially in light of the openess of our international
border, now closed by our response to the world that hates us.

Our system is failing us on many levels, it really is, and the average
American on the street knows it. Most people are fed up with the system
being manipulated by the wealthy, and sending our jobs to cheap labor
markets for the sake of the shareholders, rather the supporting the American
blue collar and white collar middle class. Add to that the atrocities that
are commited in our name, under the guise of "Foreign Policy", and you have
more ****ed off people in this country, than this country has enemies.

Fact is, you don't have a ****ing clue what it is you are talking about when
you spout off about the United States as though individuals share equally in
the responsibilities we are being forced to bear by our leaders. You have no
idea what frustration we all feel over here as we see our own cancerous
sores go unattended. You speak as if all US citizens were taking part in the
evil doing of the evil doers who are in public office doing their evil deeds
under the umbrella of the evil theology that they consider Godly. You're
wrong.

I can't stop the President of the United States from being lead around by a
nose ring firmly emplanted by the religious right, the neo-conservatives,
and the lovers of money. All I can do is cast my vote for the person I think
best suited to the job. I remind you that millions upon millions of human
beings in this country did not vote for him.

Based on the **** storm that's ensued since his election, and re-election
(how did THAT happen?) I can only believe that in his mind and heart, and in
the minds of his supporters, that he is sincere in his beliefs about what
he's doing, and that he is somehow serving the needs of his followers to
their satisfaction. That he appears to me clueless as to the actual impact
his administration is wreaking on the world, is something I can do nothing
about, right along with the rest of the world that wants him out of office.
Those same millions upon millions who voted against the current
Administration in the United States, continue to want to take a new
direction.

I use my one vote first according to the needs of my family and friends, and
_then_ the world at large. As a citizen of the United States, that's all I
believe I can do without taking up arms against my own country.

So in all you ****ing and moaning, all you do is expose your own fear,
ignorance, and impotence to improve the world. If you really want to change
the world, and you really think America is the problem, then get your ass
over here and secure your citizenship, so that you can cast your vote for
who _you_ think should be in charge of what you seem to consider the super
power most responsible for the suffering of the world.

-Steve


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article ,
wrote:
On Jul 7, 7:09=A0am, Quadibloc wrote:

The United States should not go socialist, but it should have listened
more to George Meany.

John Savard

The US has always been socialistic one way or other. After WW2 it
started the GI bill program, which returned 10 times its cost to the
post war economy here in the US. The last 8 years of the Republican
administration has refocused this socialism to benefit the wealthy and
the multi-national corporations. It has funneled billions upon
billions to those industries that support the war effort.

Today we need a new approach as we cannot make anything more
complicated than a lawnmower, if it is not directly connected to
military applications.

A Core 2 Quad CPU is neither directly connected to military
applications nor simpler than a lawnmower; Intel is a hundred-gigabuck
manufacturing company, that it manufactures with ultraviolet lasers,
lenses to put Astro-Physics to shame, tetramethylhafnium vapour
deposition and nitrogen trifluoride plasma etchers, rather than
drill-presses and lathes is a detail. They have multi-billion-dollar
factories in Arizona, California, Colorado, Massachussetts, New Mexico
and Oregon.

Tom

On Jul 7, 7:10*pm, "Spanky" wrote:
wrote

http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArti...rticleID=16668

The author should run for U.S. President.

The author is a man of integrity, and the people of this USA would
probably never elect him. Part of the blame rests with our education
system, but probably most of the blame rests on our human nature.

Rolando

On Jul 8, 2:11 pm, Thomas Womack
wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

The US has always been socialistic one way or other. After WW2 it
started the GI bill program, which returned 10 times its cost to the
post war economy here in the US. The last 8 years of the Republican
administration has refocused this socialism to benefit the wealthy and
the multi-national corporations. It has funneled billions upon
billions to those industries that support the war effort.

Today we need a new approach as we cannot make anything more
complicated than a lawnmower, if it is not directly connected to
military applications.

A Core 2 Quad CPU is neither directly connected to military
applications nor simpler than a lawnmower; Intel is a hundred-gigabuck
manufacturing company, that it manufactures with ultraviolet lasers,
lenses to put Astro-Physics to shame, tetramethylhafnium vapour
deposition and nitrogen trifluoride plasma etchers, rather than
drill-presses and lathes is a detail. They have multi-billion-dollar
factories in Arizona, California, Colorado, Massachussetts, New Mexico
and Oregon.

You are correct that there are exceptions to his generalization.

But they aren't employing all the people out of work in Detroit and
Pittsburgh. The number of good-paying jobs in manufacturing has gone
down, and those who do manufacture in the U.S. are using high degrees
of automation.

John Savard

On Jul 8, 8:06 am, "Spanky" wrote:

You seem to think that individual citizenz are directly responsible for the
behavior of a country (hmm, sounds familiar).

Hey, the German people got the short end of the stick when the German
government behaved badly; it couldn't really be helped. And so the
Iranian people may well face problems, because their undemocratic
regime has chosen to make itself a danger to the lives of free people
in Israel. You have a better solution that doesn't involve sitting
around and waiting for Tel Aviv to get nuked?

Most people are fed up with the system
being manipulated by the wealthy, and sending our jobs to cheap labor
markets for the sake of the shareholders, rather the supporting the American
blue collar and white collar middle class.

Now there's something I agree with.

and re-election
(how did THAT happen?)

Could the fact that the Democratic candidate in that election was a
"war hero" who then returned home to stump around America telling
everybody what a horrible brutal war of genocide we were fighting have
something to do with it?

Bizarrely enough, after September 11, 2001, many Americans felt that
it was time to stop worrying about how America might have offended the
sensibilities of Islamic extremists or other critics, and instead to
start dealing condignly with those who would murder peaceful Americans
out of a blue sky, so that this kind of attack upon free men from the
forces of evil would never be repeated.

If there were no terrorist attacks against Israel, if there had been
no attempt to blot it from the map in 1948, it would have been
possible for Arab and Jew to live together peacefully. It is the anti-
Israel forces that are not willing to live under a system of peace and
equality, but who instead want to impose the system of Shari'a, under
which non-Muslims cannot testify against Muslims in court, and in many
other ways must show that they "know their place".

It is too bad, indeed, in the days of Jim Crow, that there wasn't
someone around to nuke a few Southern cities and kill thousands of
white Southern civilians until the South learned to *behave* in
accordance with the Rules of Democracy. But that was then, and now is
now. The problem of overt legal discrimination against black Americans
has already been solved. Now, it's only in a few places in the Muslim
world where this kind of thing continues to go on.

Of course, since the U.S. was allowed to outgrow its own mistakes, it
had been willing to let the Muslim world do the same - despite the
terrible human cost to members of religious minorities in places like
Egypt and Indonesia.

But now, after September 11, 2001, any Muslim who has silly notions
that the lives of non-Muslims are not quite equally to be respected as
those of Muslims, that somehow they're not quite equal, is a potential
terrorist, and hence a deadly threat.

Thus, I see the United States as teetering on the brink of just giving
up and carpet-bombing the whole Islamic world off the face of the
Earth. Because the alternative would require more people than the U.S.
could put in its armed forces, even with a draft - occupying all the
majority-Muslim nations of the world and ruling them with an iron
fist.

G. W. Bush is doing no such thing, of course. Iraq was only invaded
because Saddam Hussein made the mistake of behaving so as to excite
worries that he could possibly have had weapons of mass destruction,
the possibility of which had, after September 11, 2001, become
*absolutely* intolerable, since there was now a route by which they
could conceivably have come to be used against Americans.

Otherwise, look how patient the U.S. is being towards Pakistan, for
example. How it works with regimes in Sa'udi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt,
and so on, despite imperfect human-rights records.

What the American people want from their foreign policy is a world
where peaceful people who just want to make a living are NEVER
disturbed by violence coming from elsewhere.

Nobody gets kidnapped in Colombia.

Nobody gets blown up by a suicide bomber in Israel.

The security of democratic Taiwan for the indefinite future is clearly
and obviously absolutely guaranteed.

Russia begins an orderly repatriation of the people who entered (or
whose ancestors entered) the Baltic nations after their independence
was violated by aggression under the previous Communist regime. As a
country prevbiously guilty of aggression, like Japan, it disbands its
armed forces, and begins repaying the U.S. taxpayer, with accrued
interest, for the portion of the U.S. defence budget since 1945 which
related to the Cold War - as well as the taxpayers of the other NATO
countries. Also, it pays for the damage to the economies of Eastern
Europe by their post-war exclusion from Western Europe.

All over the world, people live in happy liberal democracies that are
in harmony over foreign policy.

The trouble is that some countries don't like this kind of future.

So, for example, China prefers to exploit the natural resorces of
Tibet and Uighuristan (which it calls Sinkiang) rather than respecting
the right of the distinct peoples there to national independence,
acknowledging the evil aggression that brought the horrors of the
Cultural Revolution to these lands which could have been happy and
peaceful without China's interference.

For another example, Russia actually thinks it has a right to complain
about U.S. and Czech cooperation on a missile shield for Europe.
Russia invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968. It's high time Russia should
tender its unconditional surrender for commiting such an act of
aggression.

As long as the United States is a democracy, only evil men have
anything to fear from total U.S. world domination, right? And, if,
understandably, there might be concerns that this isn't quite true,
what we really need is a new international body which includes not
just the United States, but also the world's other democracies.
France, Britain, Norway, Canada, Australia, Israel, Taiwan - which
would then firmly compel all nations to refrain from actions not
popular with public opinion in the democratic world.

The key to that, of course, is for the democratic world to have *such*
a monopoly on force that no risk, and very little effort, would ever
be required for the democratic community to impose its will on any
regime anywhere.

Given that, very regrettably, we don't yet have this situation,
certainly we will have to tolerate injustice in other countries.

But we should never, ever, as free men lower ourselves to be complicit
in it in any way.

This means not sending athletes to the Beijing Olympics, for example.
Didn't the world learn its lesson in 1936?

In Russia, the government there resorted to underhanded tactics to
prevent an opposition party led by Gary Kasparov from running in the
most recent elections. That should have led to a world-wide trade
embargo at least. China, Burma, Zimbabwe, the Sudan, and so on would
also be isolated because they, too, have deviated from democracy.

But because of the sinister machinations of the anti-nuclear lobby, it
isn't currently feasible to subject Sa'udi Arabia to a world-wide
trade embargo for its violations of human rights in practicing
religious discrimination.

The best way to prevent war is to root out its causes. And bad people
who want to do naughty things are the cause of war. So if we can make
sure that, for example, the bad person Kim Jong Il is in jail where he
belongs, instead of being able to do bad things like kidnap people
from Japan, we will have a more peaceful world.

Basically, a world in which no government ever violates human rights.
Because if they tried, they could be sued by private individuals -
because an overarching system of law firmly compels human rights to be
respected everywhere by everyone.

John Savard

On 8 Jul., 16:06, "Spanky" wrote:


So in all you ****ing and moaning, all you do is expose your own fear,
ignorance, and impotence to improve the world. If you really want to change
the world, and you really think America is the problem, then get your ass
over here and secure your citizenship, so that you can cast your vote for
who _you_ think should be in charge of what you seem to consider the super
power most responsible for the suffering of the world.

-Steve

An odd suggestion since you and the millions of other decent people
can't seem to mend America from the bottom up. America rules the world
corruptly on everything which matters to us all. U.N. World Bank.
Climate. Crime. Pollution. Arms trade. Global monopolies. Food dumping
at well below cost. Inequality. Damaging legitimate democracies. Food
and oil investment/exploitation for profit. Etc.etc.

The world's control systems are broken beyond repair and America the
train driver is still drunk on its brutish 19th Century steam power.
We are locked into headlong destruction of the planet so just a few
can profit at the expense of the very many. Where is the Solomon to
lift us all out of despair as we fall headlong and screaming into the
darkness of the 21St Century? One more chance and then the even more
corrupt Chinese dictatorship takes over. More of the same will just
kill the patient. Who is now terminally ill. Should we recommend
more cake to those who are already eating clay cake but finding it too
is now out of reach thanks to local price inflation?